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  1. #31
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Anyone have any good reports or graphs on correlations between Theism and income?

    Generally speaking, and I may be off, but in my eyes, I kind of see Theists making up more of the lower class (rednecks in the Bible Belt?) and Atheists (potentially) hovering more in the Middle and Upper classes. But again, this may be more of an age thing rather than a class thing.
    Ugh. This almost offended me. Anyways...

    Anti-Atheist Bigotry: Atheists are Privileged, Better Educated in America - Are Atheists too Privileged to be Victims of Discrimination, Bigotry?

    Some speculations. Nothing statistical.
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  2. #32
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    More shit!:

    Over 10% of American population are atheist:
    http://www.atheistempire.com/referenc...

    Less than 0.25% of prisoners are atheist:
    The results of the Christians vs atheists in prison investigation.

    Majority of Nobel Prize winners atheist:
    The Religiosity and Religious Affiliation of Nobel Prize Winners (Beit-Hallahmi, 1989)

    Majority of University professors atheist:
    Religion and Spirituality among University Scientists (Ecklund, 2007)

    Majority of scientists atheist:
    Scie - FreeThoughtPedia...

    Atheist Intellectuals:
    http://brainz.org/50-most-brilliant-a...
    http://www.celebatheists.com/?title=C...

    Atheist Celebrities:
    http://www.celebatheists.com/?title=M...

    Poverty rate lower among atheists:
    Society Without God (Zuckerman, 2008)

    IQ higher among atheists:
    2008 June 20 : Interfaith...

    Illiteracy rate lower among atheists:
    United Nations Human Development Report (2004)

    Average Income higher among atheists:
    United Nations Human Development Report (2004)

    Divorce rate lower among atheists:
    http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr...

    Teen pregnancy rate lower among atheists:
    http://www.americablog.com/2009/01/re...

    Abortions lower among atheists:
    Cross-National Correlations of Quantifiable Societal Health with Popular Religiosity and Secularism in the Prosperous Democracies: A First Look (Paul, 2005)

    STD infection lower among atheists:
    The Times | UK News, World News and Opinion...

    Crime rate lower among atheists:
    Cross-National Correlations of Quantifiable Societal Health with Popular Religiosity and Secularism in the Prosperous Democracies: A First Look (Paul, 2005)

    Homicide rate lower among atheists:
    Cross-National Correlations of Quantifiable Societal Health with Popular Religiosity and Secularism in the Prosperous Democracies: A First Look (Paul, 2005)
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  3. #33
    Senior Member ms.behaving's Avatar
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    Athiests are dumb. I mean, retarded.

  4. #34
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    I don't understand why anyone CARES about the fact that people are Atheists. I mean, religion is a personal thing; and if that's what they think then that's fine. None of anyone else's fucking business. People are so retarded and don't have common sense.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  5. #35
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    This is an example of a false dichotomy.

    Passionate thinking does not necessarily predispose one to a/theism. Passion and religious belief aren't related terms.

    All atheists aren't Richard Dawkins. Just as all theists aren't Pat Robertson.
    I'm not sure you understand. In my experience, atheist individuals tend to be more vociferous about their personal thoughts, Richard Dawkins is an example of that. Those kind of atheists rub against the established culture in the US. Believers in the US, excluding some extreme fundamentalist ones, don't draw as much attention as atheists, simply because they aren't advocating anything groundbreaking. As far as I see, passionate thinking isn't a great part of the equation.
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

  6. #36
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    I'm not sure you understand. In my experience, atheist individuals tend to be more vociferous about their personal thoughts, Richard Dawkins is an example of that. Those kind of atheists rub against the established culture in the US.

    No, I understood perfectly fine. It's still a false dichotomy because you are implying that passionate atheists are necessarily similar to Richard Dawkins. You're crudely simplifying the scope of possible human behavior. Which is why I provided a negative contrast that all theists are necessarily similar to Pat Robertson.

    Make more sense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    Believers in the US, excluding some extreme fundamentalist ones, don't draw as much attention as atheists, simply because they aren't advocating anything groundbreaking. As far as I see, passionate thinking isn't a great part of the equation.
    You're generalizing again.

    Atheists aren't advocating anything "groundbreaking" (to be honest, that word is probably semantically useless, for the purpose of comparing like terms) - they're simply advocating a stance of non-belief, which happens to run against the overriding majority opinion. Freedom from religion isn't a controversial point; it's simply a position of intellectual neutrality towards competing systems of belief that have no place in organized government.

    If you want controversial, belief-studded behavior, look at New Age Creationists. Or, creationism in general and the political effort to streamline it alongside evolution as viable science.

    That's groundbreaking.

  7. #37
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    No, I understood perfectly fine. It's still a false dichotomy because you are implying that passionate atheists are necessarily similar to Richard Dawkins. You're crudely simplifying the scope of possible human behavior. Which is why I provided a negative contrast that all theists are necessarily similar to Pat Robertson.

    Make more sense?



    You're generalizing again.

    Atheists aren't advocating anything "groundbreaking" (to be honest, that word is probably semantically useless, for the purpose of comparing like terms) - they're simply advocating a stance of non-belief, which happens to run against the overriding majority opinion. Freedom from religion isn't a controversial point; it's simply a position of intellectual neutrality towards competing systems of belief that have no place in organized government.

    If you want controversial, belief-studded behavior, look at New Age Creationists. Or, creationism in general and the political effort to streamline it alongside evolution as viable science.

    That's groundbreaking.
    You are misreading this.

    The atheists that get the press attention and that people hear about aren't the ones that go about their lives and don't bother with public affairs. There is a good deal of that.

    You must be aware that issues like prayer in public schools, and freedom of religion vs freedom from religion, and the pertaining issues of the founding fathers are a BIG part of modern US politics. These things are against the grain.

    The atheists people see and know are the ones like Richard Dawkins, who grad the press's attention. Because they have differences of opinion from established US thought, they generate a lot of dislike.

    I don't know how to make it any more clear than that. When you get right down to it, atheism in the US is not normal. And people don't like their customs being changed.
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

  8. #38
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    I don't understand why anyone CARES about the fact that people are Atheists. I mean, religion is a personal thing; and if that's what they think then that's fine. None of anyone else's fucking business. People are so retarded and don't have common sense.
    Agreed but there's more to it than that. Many theists that don't have close contact with those that openly atheist on a everyday basis have been fooled into believing that atheists must be wicked because they 'lack the moral grounding that religion provides'. That perceived moral unpredictability gives them a reason to fear/despise atheists.

    Clearly education is the key here...
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  9. #39
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    I'm an Atheist and I have no moral grounding and I'm coming to get you!

    Rarrr!
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

    Quinlan's Creations

  10. #40
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    You are misreading this.
    I'm afraid not. Here's your original quote:

    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    I think get what Lark is saying. Atheists many times are vociferous about their thoughts, and they annoy a lot of people for that. Like that dickhead Richard Dawkins.
    A statement that makes very little rational sense, as you clearly link "atheists" with "that dickhead Richard Dawkins".

    I've highlighted the relevant phrasing for your benefit. You provided a false dichotomy, as you presented an argument having few competing alternatives, when in reality, many more exist.

    Your words.

    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    You must be aware that issues like prayer in public schools, and freedom of religion vs freedom from religion, and the pertaining issues of the founding fathers are a BIG part of modern US politics. These things are against the grain.
    "Against the grain"? Irrelevant. Whether antagonistic of supportive of popular thought, new ideas must be explored with the same determination and care as old. I don't think I need to explain this rationale to a critical, intelligent mind. So, we'll leave this thought here for now.

    As an aside, are you really implying that unconventional thinking is necessarily inferior to what proceeds "with the grain" as it is customary?

    Truly?

    Perhaps you could clarify this for me. I'll withhold judgment until you proceed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    The atheists people see and know are the ones like Richard Dawkins, who grad the press's attention. Because they have differences of opinion from established US thought, they generate a lot of dislike.
    Again - you seem to offer the implication that differences of opinion from "established" thought are inherently less valuable than ideas that simply support traditional thinking.

    I hate to offer another logical fallacy as counterpoint, but this thinking is textbook proof of tradition.

    I don't like pointing out these fallacies any more than you like reading them.


    It's just sloppy thinking that begs for correction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    I don't know how to make it any more clear than that. When you get right down to it, atheism in the US is not normal. And people don't like their customs being changed.
    Speaking of tradition, ever hear of Sati? Used to be normal.

    What about things like racism? For a very long time, racist beliefs earmarked sociological behavior in the U.S. It was "tradition" to believe in the innate worth of a human being on the basis of perceived ethnicity.

    I hope you comprehend the connection that I'm softballing your way...

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