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  1. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passacaglia View Post
    Eh, unless you're rubbing shoulders with the most rabid of U.S. conservative ideologues -- I don't know who you hang with while you're in the States, so I leave that judgment to you -- I doubt the lack of hostility has to do with your personal politics. I'm guessing you don't get ranty or smarmy about your atheism, and probably don't even go out of your way to tell people you're an atheist. So most Americans probably A) assume you're a Christian, and/or B) don't care what you do or don't believe. Which has been my experience.
    You will find me in the company of wealthy cultured Aryans like myself, mainly in Hawaii.

    Quote Originally Posted by Passacaglia View Post
    I'm curious about these atheist haters of Xmas decorations who also apologize for non-Christian fundamentalism, if you can remember any names or sources.
    Christians Erect Nativity Scene in Nebraska State Capitol, Atheists Follow With Sign Declaring Religion A Myth | Americans Against the Tea Party. Honestly, as obnoxious as the Christian group no doubt were, those atheists were out there for a fight. I don't see the harm in erecting Christmas decorations in public buildings; it is a part of Western culture and there are more constructive ways to get your point across about religion.

    Like @msg_v2 has pointed out, atheist apologists for Islam are very common on the internet. You will find them in any place that is a nexus for multicultural, relativist thinking, so look harder. A good place to start is here: Just a moment...

    Quote Originally Posted by Passacaglia View Post
    I know these things, though I don't know what they have to do with anything.
    My point is that unless you live in a very conservative area, Christianity is not a threat to your life and liberty, so I feel the disproportionate focus some atheists have on Christianity is a sign that they have ulterior motives. No Christian in the U.S. will behead you for publishing material that critiques their religion, but Muslims do this every day. The problem is that almost all Muslims are non-White, so the race-conscious liberals are not prepared to condemn their behaviour. Diversity is good! (cue the sheep from Animal Farm)

    We must remember that all peoples and their cultures are equal, so any differences between them must be due to oppression. After all, you wouldn't want to be racist, would you?

  2. #382
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    The problem is that almost all Muslims are non-White, so the race-conscious liberals are not prepared to condemn their behaviour.
    Uhhh....



    Last time I checked, Bosnia and Albania are also made up of white people.

    The dynamic you mentioned does exist, though, and it's as moronic as the dynamic some people have about Israel.

    Islam, like Judaism, Christianity, and Buddhism consists of white, brown, asian and black people.

    We must remember that all peoples and their cultures are equal, so any differences between them must be due to oppression. After all, you wouldn't want to be racist, would you?
    Cultures are different because of historical reasons and other factors, and saying that it's just because of oppression is simplistic nonsense. I would characterize ISIS as a fascist movement. Japanese fascism was also a thing. Pretty much anyone of any race, religion or ethnicity can be a dick. And yes, there are people who don't like it when that is mentioned, because of lazy group-think. There are other kinds of lazy group-think, though.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  3. #383
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    We must remember that all peoples and their cultures are equal, so any differences between them must be due to oppression. After all, you wouldn't want to be racist, would you?
    As I have mentioned before, being equal in this non-mathematical context is not the same as being identical. It's like the flavors in the ice cream shop.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  4. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    As I have mentioned before, being equal in this non-mathematical context is not the same as being identical. It's like the flavors in the ice cream shop.
    I think the events of the last year have been intellectual suicide for cultural relativism.

  5. #385
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    I think the events of the last year have been intellectual suicide for cultural relativism.
    I'm not a moral relativist. I decided that morality was important, and that it must be universal, or not exist at all. I find that sometimes religions, as they exist now, are inadequate for morality.

    I think it would be wiser for religions to have articles of doubt, rather than articles of faith.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  6. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Uhhh....

    I somehow doubt you have visited Turkey before. I have been to the most Occidental regions of the country and never once saw a Turkish woman who looked like that. Even in Greece, blonde hair was rare.

    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Last time I checked, Bosnia and Albania are also made up of white people.
    Bosnia and especially Albania are not religiously homogenous. They also represent a tiny proportion of the world's Muslim population - most live in Indonesia and Pakistan. Thus my point about this still stands. The world's Muslims are overwhelmingly non-White.

    We should also consider that Muslim population in the Anglosphere is generally of South Asian and/or North African origin. I would therefore go so far to argue that the conflict is as much a racial as a religious one, but that most people are just too embarrassed to admit this.

    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    The dynamic you mentioned does exist, though, and it's as moronic as the dynamic some people have about Israel.

    Islam, like Judaism, Christianity, and Buddhism consists of white, brown, asian and black people.
    Why have Israelis had such a problem embracing Ethiopian Jews, then? From what i've read, Israel actually has some of the most stringent immigration laws in the world. Much like with Mexico, Saudi Arabia etc, the hypocrisy is glaring, but this is a subject for another time.

    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Cultures are different because of historical reasons and other factors, and saying that it's just because of oppression is simplistic nonsense. I would characterize ISIS as a fascist movement. Japanese fascism was also a thing. Pretty much anyone of any race, religion or ethnicity can be a dick. And yes, there are people who don't like it when that is mentioned, because of lazy group-think. There are other kinds of lazy group-think, though.
    I am not the one you need to be saying this to.

  7. #387
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    I somehow doubt you have visited Turkey before. I have been to the most Occidental regions of the country and never once saw a Turkish woman who looked like that. Even in Greece, blonde hair was rare.
    No, but I've met Turkish people.

    Blonde hair tends to be a rare trait in most countries because it is recessive. What makes that woman less white than any Christian woman?

    It's not surprising that you mentioned Greece, because Turkey, which was once the heartland of the Ottoman Caliphate, is home to the capital of the former Eastern Roman Empire.

    Why has Israel had such a problem accepting Ethiopian Jews in the country, then? From what i've read, Israel actually has some of the most stringent immigration laws in the world. The hypocrisy around this is a subject for another time.
    Yet, they exist, and they live there. This does not mean that racism does not exist there.

    As for Israel's immigration laws, there is a historical context to them.

    There are restrictions against Arabs who lived in the region returning to the areas they came from, which is not something I'm comfortable with, but it's also true that none of the other Arab countries where the Palestinian refugees settled bothered integrating them, either.

    I am not the one you need to be say this to.
    Oh, I think I do.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  8. #388
    Senior Member captain curmudgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Just goes to show what sort of jerks they are for the most part, if the US is anything like the UK they are angry, angry, angry and loving their victim status, no matter how far they got the church pinned they got to try and stick it to them some more.

    All you got to do is check out Amazon anything with a hint of a religious message and its slated as all sorts of God Party BS, look at the Amazon UK reviews of Book of Eli, film's a post apocalypse thriller about book collectors, oh shit it features a bible! Its obviously an attempt at evangelism, lets leave the theatre and demonstrate outside in protest!
    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    This entire post is bewildering. Can you clarify your reasoning?

    How does the article "show" atheists to be jerks? Moreover, how does it articulate that their non-belief necessarily unifies into collective anger - or any emotion, for that matter?

    I'm really not sure where to begin here, Lark.
    While I'm not certain of where to begin, I'm rather certain of where this begins. It starts with a fundamental desire to rewrite history. Note the fact that Book of Eli ranked in second in theaters when released, behind Avatar nonetheless. Not to mention the sheer variety of Christian-themed and Christian-centric films released in the United States, not only in ages past, not only in the present, but throughout the years. Look at authors such as Rick Warren, Joel Osteen, the Chicken Soup series authors, Max Lucado, the Left Behind series author(s), CS Lewis, and the list goes on. Add in nationally known evangelists such as Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Tony Campolo, and Billy Graham.

    The issue here isn't how Atheists act. It's how Christians actively learn about the above information, distort the facts, and use their own words to attempt to re-define everyone's perception of reality. It's a choice- they know these anecdotes and stories are strictly propaganda, and only re-use them for gain.

    I mean, come on. Christians are complaining about gay marriage, but when is the last time you've heard of a Christian couple not being married due to their Christian beliefs? Christians can deny any couple a marriage ceremony based on sexual orientation, race, etc. In fact,this has happened multiple times in the last 5 or 6 years. Was it reported? Yes. But the same news outlets are also saying that racism isn't even a relevant issue in the US, let alone a problem.

    ...but again, it's all about conscious choice. Christians know they're in the majority, so these things aren't 'real issues'.
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  9. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Rare perhaps, but it exists. It's not surprising that you mentioned Greece, because Turkey contained the capital of the Eastern Roman Empire.
    You say this as if you're hoping to impart newfound knowledge.

    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Yet, they exist. At no point did I imply that racism did not exist there.
    As you know, I don't disapprove of screening immigrants on a racial basis. The reason I object to Israeli policy is that some of the most hawkish Jews will support open borders in Europe and North America. While I have grown to understand the reasons for the hypocrisy, I feel the same moral outrage that I did three years ago, when these things started to become clear to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Oh, I think I do.
    It is easier to criticise an enemy than it is a friend.

  10. #390
    Senior Member Passacaglia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Oh, of course. Similarly, a lot of Muslim organizations in France came out against that attack on the Kosher grocery store that happened around the same time.

    I'm referring more to the response from certain quarters on the internet. Maybe I'm overstating it's importance, because I spend too much time online.... but there was a lot of handwringing about how the cartoons were offensive, and how all the people defending freedom of speech are only saying that because they secretly hate Muslims/Arabs. The implication was made that if I defended the freedom of speech of the magazine editors, I was somehow saying it was ok with revenge killings against Muslims. I am not.

    There was an odd unspoken assumption that merely mentioning Islamic fundamentalism (when it obviously exists) was racist. Talking about Islamic fundamentalist is not the same thing as saying "kill all the Muslims", and the fact that it was equated with that kind of strikes me as being hypocritical, and disturbing, even.
    Ah, that explains it. I don't do social media.

    I waste enough time on forums like TypeC as it is.

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