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  1. #341
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Not following you here. If you expect me to support various Israeli policies or actions, I'm not going to do that. I'm also not going to issue an apology for it's creation, either, though.

    Double bind - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Fact was, the rest of the world didn't give a shit during WWII. Where else would they have gone?
    Yeah, the world didnt care about the jews.

    I'm not big on collective guilt trips, I didnt think you were from your other post.

  2. #342
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Yeah, the world didnt care about the jews.

    I'm not big on collective guilt trips, I didnt think you were from your other post.
    I'm not; I'm just stating something that can be backed up by historical fact. I don't get what point you are trying to make. Why don't you articulate it, instead of hinting at things?

    You dropped an odd reference to Israel (which this discussion wasn't even about), and then when I addressed this, you accused me of making this about collective guilt trips.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  3. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    We use the law to penalize businesses who refuse service to black people. It just comes down to what categories of people we are going to allow to be excluded: blacks? Jews? gays? atheists? biracial couples? single mothers? ex-felons? Take your pick.
    In the US this is done because Congress has a hand in interstate commerce, and most businesses these days are part of interstate commerce in some form or other.

    The Civil Rights Act of 1964 was partly based on this - the simple fact that discrimination is economically harmful and it interferes with the enumerated powers of Congress (in this case "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes")

    Basically Congress gets to say who gets served and who doesn't in public businesses because it's in their interests and the interests of the nation's economy.

    Edit:
    And my point in this is saying that it was less about picking our favorite minority, and more about ensuring the cash keeps flowing.

    Based on this it could be extended to pretty much anyone, within reasonable public safety limits (active chainsaw murderers are probably excluded and rightfully so)

    Edit edit:
    Also yes it's about equality too, but the enumerated power to regulate commerce helps give Congress some teeth to their ability to get in and regulate what could otherwise be considered private property.

  4. #344
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I'm not; I'm just stating something that can be backed up by historical fact. I don't get what point you are trying to make. Why don't you articulate it, instead of hinting at things?
    If the world didnt care about the Jews it wouldnt have liberated the camps, the british wouldnt have relinquished control of british mandate palestine to jewish terrorists (lets be clear here they fought a terror campaign and even the israelis dont deny that, they would say its the reason why the leaders of those campaigns didnt form the government but it was a terror campaign, seen by the left at the time as an anti-colonial struggle) and a lot of things I can think of.

    The lack of a German resistance to the rise of Hitler and to Hitler in power is a myth, the lack of German and global solidarity with the Jews during the rise and after the rise and during the war is a lie too.

    The holocaust involved the systematic extermination of more than simply the jews, they had a special place as figures of hatred, for sure, but socialists, catholics, trade unionists, populations of the most vulnerable physically and mentally were all put to death.

  5. #345
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    If the world didnt care about the Jews it wouldnt have liberated the camps, the british wouldnt have relinquished control of british mandate palestine to jewish terrorists (lets be clear here they fought a terror campaign and even the israelis dont deny that, they would say its the reason why the leaders of those campaigns didnt form the government but it was a terror campaign, seen by the left at the time as an anti-colonial struggle) and a lot of things I can think of.
    As did the IRA.

    How do you feel about Irish protestants?

    The lack of a German resistance to the rise of Hitler and to Hitler in power is a myth, the lack of German and global solidarity with the Jews during the rise and after the rise and during the war is a lie too.
    I never said there was no German resistance or that the Germans were all bad or that everybody approved of what was going on.

    What I am saying is that nobody wanted the refugees. If more countries had taken in refugees, Israel might not even exist.


    The holocaust involved the systematic extermination of more than simply the jews, they had a special place as figures of hatred, for sure, but socialists, catholics, trade unionists, populations of the most vulnerable physically and mentally were all put to death.
    Of course it did.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  6. #346
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    As did the IRA.

    How do you feel about Irish protestants?


    I never said there was no German resistance or that the Germans were all bad or that everybody approved of what was going on.

    What I am saying is that nobody wanted the refugees. If more countries had taken in refugees, Israel might not even exist.




    Of course it did.
    I feel I've said my last word to you.

  7. #347
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  8. #348
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93JC View Post
    That was too easy.

    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  9. #349
    Senior Member Passacaglia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Commonly referred to as secular progressives.



    About 90% overlap, so essentially the same crowd. I doubt the 60% of people who don't feel warmly towards atheists have Ayn Rand in mind.
    Lol, I suppose not!

    And no doubt there's quite a bit of overlap in the liberal/atheist venn diagram, but I personally wouldn't hazard the overlap at 90%. The U.S. is only 16.4% 'unaffiliated' religion-wise, so unless you're talking about a rather narrow band of the liberal population, I'd hazard a guess that most of them are Christian. (We're 78.3% Christian, as a nation.)

    But I appreciate your insights into the perceptions of atheist-haters.

  10. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    That was too easy.

    See this, this right here. These three behaving like this.

    This is why this place is a ghetto.

    Dont anyone wonder why "this place has changed"

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