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  1. #321
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passacaglia
    I hesitate to ask, but I tried to google the Christian bakery thing, and had no luck. Can you recall any names?
    My bad. It was a Christian baker in Oregon and Christian florist in Washington.

    Bakers Who Refused to Make Wedding Cake for a Lesbian Couple Could Be Hit With a Massive Fine After Being Found Guilty of Discrimination

    It’s official: the Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industries has found that Aaron and Melissa Klein, the Christian bakers who gained national attention after they refused to make a wedding cake for a lesbian couple in 2013, were guilty of discrimination — and could be forced to pay up to $150,000 in damages.
    Florist Who Refused Gay Wedding Offered Settlement; I Will Not Be Like Judas, Betray Jesus for Money, She Replied

    Washington Attorney General Bob Ferguson offered the 70-year-old Stutzman, the owner of Arlene's flowers, a settlement on Thursday that would have spared Stutzman the high, bankrupting legal costs that she could incur as a result of the summary judgement.
    Perfect example of leftist atheists being dicks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus
    you certainly have a strong opinion on the matter, which gives me the impression that you are lying (to us or to yourself) about your interest.
    I have no interest in the matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus
    Regardless, your opinion is also wrong, but that's not surprising considering your willful ignorance (which you have admitted).
    Whatever.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.
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  2. #322
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Since when does homosexuality = atheism? There are millions of Christian homosexuals in the US.

    I have no interest in the matter.
    Yet you continue to post. If you had "no interest" in the matter, as you claim, you never would have posted in the first place.

    Whatever.
    Keep posting while simultaneously claiming to have "no interest" in the subject. This is amusing.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."
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  3. #323
    Senior Member Passacaglia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    My bad. It was a Christian baker in Oregon and Christian florist in Washington.
    Ah, I see. Cases like these do raise difficult questions. Is it wise to use the law to penalize businessmen for refusing service, no matter how bigoted the reasons? I can see arguments both ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Perfect example of leftist atheists being dicks.
    As an aside, it'd be somewhat easier to take you seriously if you weren't constantly throwing tangentially-related politics into discussions. Especially when there are plenty of right-wing fundies being much much more than dicks -- see the articles which you kindly linked me to for examples.
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  4. #324
    Senior Member Passacaglia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Keep posting while simultaneously claiming to have "no interest" in the subject. This is amusing.
    Especially considering that he is not the first.

  5. #325
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passacaglia View Post
    As an aside, it'd be somewhat easier to take you seriously if you weren't constantly throwing tangentially-related politics into discussions. Especially when there are plenty of right-wing fundies being much much more than dicks -- see the articles which you kindly linked me to for examples.
    Tellenbach clearly has knowledge that no others have. He can prove it by providing the results to more hypothetical polls.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."
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  6. #326
    is indra's Avatar
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    What I loathe is that the religious unwarrantedly gain something I so fondly regard - comprehension.

  7. #327
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passacaglia
    As an aside, it'd be somewhat easier to take you seriously if you weren't constantly throwing tangentially-related politics into discussions.
    Hardly tangential. This thread is about atheists and why some people dislike them. Using the levers of government to persecute Christian business owners figures prominently, imho, into why some people dislike them.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  8. #328
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passacaglia View Post
    Ah, I see. Cases like these do raise difficult questions. Is it wise to use the law to penalize businessmen for refusing service, no matter how bigoted the reasons? I can see arguments both ways.
    We use the law to penalize businesses who refuse service to black people. It just comes down to what categories of people we are going to allow to be excluded: blacks? Jews? gays? atheists? biracial couples? single mothers? ex-felons? Take your pick.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
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  9. #329

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    We use the law to penalize businesses who refuse service to black people. It just comes down to what categories of people we are going to allow to be excluded: blacks? Jews? gays? atheists? biracial couples? single mothers? ex-felons? Take your pick.
    What about Christians? An obvious minority you've left out there. In the UK people have already been debarred from working as counsellors and owning B&Bs because they did so and were honest, as their creed demands of them, about being unable to provide the service wanted by some same sex couples.

    Now I would have said that anyone who was deliberately discriminatory, on the grounds of malice, would have simply been devious and given nefarious or nebulous reasons as to why they couldnt perform the role expected, even just dragged their feet, "phoned it in" or been "sick" and found some way to deny the service with a lack of all sincerity. In other words in a manner in which it would be impossible to prove, or at the least extremely difficult to prove.

    So the message about discrimination would appear to be that if you plan on doing so, do it in a plausibly deniable way and you will not run the risk of state or legal sanction.

    As to whether or not it will lead to the changes of hearts and minds which people imagined those sorts of legal sanctions would, well, the state's good at that sort of thing isnt it? Its unlikely to provoke a festering and ill tempered resistance is it?

    Hmm, yeah, lots of thinking out of these things going on.

  10. #330
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    What about Christians? An obvious minority you've left out there. In the UK people have already been debarred from working as counsellors and owning B&Bs because they did so and were honest, as their creed demands of them, about being unable to provide the service wanted by some same sex couples.
    I also left out Muslims, native Americans, people with ADHD, lefties, and a whole host of other groups. I hope you didn't consider my list to be all-inclusive. I would not include "people who want to discriminate", though. If anything, these are the only folks the law should sanction, whoever they are, and unless their reasons for discriminating have some basis in objective reality (e.g. not giving Pap tests to men).
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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