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  1. #281
    Lost in the Multiverse Bknight's Avatar
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    Atheists are good for the most part; it's just a few of them that drive me mental. You know, the kind that hears a Christian evangelizing, yells at them "stop shoving your damn beliefs down my throat", and then starts trying to convince them that God is false and evolution brought us to be.

    To be concise, hypocrites piss me off. I don't care if they're Atheist, Christian, or otherwise; hypocrites piss me off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Funkadelic View Post
    Generally speaking, and I may be off, but in my eyes, I kind of see Theists making up more of the lower class (rednecks in the Bible Belt?) and Atheists (potentially) hovering more in the Middle and Upper classes. But again, this may be more of an age thing rather than a class thing.
    A lot of people that climb to the top of a capitalistic economy have done some less-than-ethical things along the way. A lot of Christians I know would rather be poor and good than rich and evil. Of course, they might simply view it as an overly worldly/materialistic ambition. I think the latter is probably more accurate.

  2. #282
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bknight View Post
    Atheists are good for the most part; it's just a few of them that drive me mental. You know, the kind that hears a Christian evangelizing, yells at them "stop shoving your damn beliefs down my throat", and then starts trying to convince them that God is false and evolution brought us to be.

    To be concise, hypocrites piss me off. I don't care if they're Atheist, Christian, or otherwise; hypocrites piss me off.
    Always remembering hypocrisy is the homage vice pays to virtue.

  3. #283
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    We thought that the Enlightenment would see the withering away of religion. But the opposite has happened. Throughout the world religion is growing and increasing in leaps and bounds. So much so we can look forward to religious war into the foreseeable future. And religious war is the worst kind of war for there is no room for compromise, and both sides pursue their aims with passionate indecency.

  4. #284

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    We thought that the Enlightenment would see the withering away of religion. But the opposite has happened. Throughout the world religion is growing and increasing in leaps and bounds. So much so we can look forward to religious war into the foreseeable future. And religious war is the worst kind of war for there is no room for compromise, and both sides pursue their aims with passionate indecency.
    The same passionate indecency which is the mark of Dawkin's moral obligation to abort downs syndrome babies?

    Man is wolf to man, he doesnt need religion or atheism to make a fist of that, although he'll make use of whatever tools are at hand religious or other.

    The thing about atheism is that I dont believe it owes that much to enlightenment, not any longer, if you examine its doctrines now its not even life affirming and positive any longer, nope, it shares the worst traits of bad religion for the most part.

    Devaluing people, questioning their intrinsic worth, affirming death through euthenasia, assisted suicide, abortion, non-intervention and neo-malthusianism, fiscally conservative because of the neo-malthusianism, seeing no good and no purpose in poor relief and definitely opposing social reforms or economic and social restructuring.

    That's before you get into the discussions about "child abuse doing no one any harm" or Darren Brown making a career out of debunking human nature or any reality beyond individuals as "meat automatons" having done with spiritualism and religion earlier in his day.

    Its obvious that religion is a human need or corresponds to human needs, the question is whether it will be good or bad, atheism will always be marginal, maybe apathy will eclipse religion but why atheism would see that as a victory I dont know.

  5. #285
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    That's before you [atheists] get into the discussions about "child abuse doing no one any harm"
    Well, we had to wait to elect an atheist woman Prime Minister, Hon. Julia Gillard MP, before we got our Australian Royal Commission into Institutional Child Abuse.

    But of course the Irish Judicial Enquiry into institutional child abuse took nine years in the making and the release of the report broke the power of the Roman Catholic Church in Ireland.

    It seems to me that your apologia for Catholicism ignores the Ryan Report and subsequent reports.

  6. #286

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Well, we had to wait to elect an atheist woman Prime Minister, Hon. Julia Gillard MP, before we got our Australian Royal Commission into Institutional Child Abuse.

    But of course the Irish Judicial Enquiry into institutional child abuse took nine years in the making and the release of the report broke the power of the Roman Catholic Church in Ireland.

    It seems to me that your apologia for Catholicism ignores the Ryan Report and subsequent reports.
    What apologia for Catholicism?

    Concentrating upon clerical abuse out of hatred for religious traditions excuses, or worse simply ignores, the much wider and deeper problems with child abuse and other varieties of abuse that exist, that have existed for a long time and have their own legacies.

    Although electing atheists is going to change that right?

  7. #287
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Man is wolf to man, he doesnt need religion or atheism to make a fist of that, although he'll make use of whatever tools are at hand religious or other.
    Religion is a particularly dangerous tool, however, because it refuses to subject itself to rational analysis, and thus can easily be used to reinforce a leader's demands for unquestioning obedience.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
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  8. #288
    Senior Member Passacaglia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    We thought that the Enlightenment would see the withering away of religion. But the opposite has happened. Throughout the world religion is growing and increasing in leaps and bounds. So much so we can look forward to religious war into the foreseeable future. And religious war is the worst kind of war for there is no room for compromise, and both sides pursue their aims with passionate indecency.
    Is it? I mean, beyond what we'd expect from growing populations?

    In any case, I have high hopes that as time goes on -- and assuming peoples' quality of life generally goes up -- religion will eventually become less obtrusive and more like...

    "I'm a christian because I'm a big ol' lover at heart, and I just love psalm-rock!"

    "I'm a hindu because it's the GOR*! Also, the Mahadeva trinity really speaks to me and reminds me that everything is a cycle."

    *Grand Old Relig'

    "I'm a muslim because the discipline really helps me structure my day. Plus I love wearing the burqa once a year on Halloween!"

    "Oh I don't go to temple, religion isn't my thing."

    "That's cool. Hey, let's hit the soccer field!"

  9. #289
    A Gentle Whisper ~MS*ANGEL~'s Avatar
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    Aww but atheists are the ones most likely to ask questions and least likely to follow anything blindly. They should be appreciated for not walking around like brain-dead zombies in a world full of religious extremists.
    Only she who attempts the absurd can achieve the impossible... and then some.

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  10. #290

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Religion is a particularly dangerous tool, however, because it refuses to subject itself to rational analysis, and thus can easily be used to reinforce a leader's demands for unquestioning obedience.
    That's a pretty broad generalisation of a very wide ranging and very different and disparite traditions there, you sure you want to do that?

    I'm prepared to make distinctions between humanistic and non-humanistic religion or philosophy, I'm prepared to acknowledge there's "good" and "bad" atheism or religion, although this makes it appear like you dont accept any definition of that sort.

    I dont believe that any religious leaders have been able to command unquestioning obedience for a long time, I think that the secular authorities would have difficulty too, perhaps if they had stoked peoples sense of threat enough but it wouldnt be as its been in the past. Perhaps I'm mistaken about that.

    The things which command that sort of allegiance now are emotionally charged and ill conceived vagaries, people are willing to put people out of work, out of business, censor them, silence them and ultimately try to control their thinking, all the more insidious because no one realises what's going on. Its a totally leaderless phenomenon, kind of like the total and utter opposite of a furherprinzip but you want to bet its as dangerous.

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