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  1. #271
    Senior Member Passacaglia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tippo View Post
    Applicable to all who have conviction, to believe in anything without scientific proof is moronic, hence atheists are just as foolish to express their views as absolute without proof.
    Irony....
    Person 1: There's an invisible man named Edlund behind you, friend! You must praise his name while jumping on one foot every Tuesday, or he will one day punish you for your sins!

    Person 2: No there isn't.

    Neither person can be absolutely sure he's right, but one is making a much much bigger assumption than the other, and one assumption is clearly more reasonable than the other.
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  2. #272
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passacaglia View Post
    Person 1: There's an invisible man named Edlund behind you, friend! You must praise his name while jumping on one foot every Tuesday, or he will one day punish you for your sins!

    Person 2: No there isn't.

    Neither person can be absolutely sure he's right, but one is making a much much bigger assumption than the other, and one assumption is clearly more reasonable than the other.
    This is why only people proposing the most abstracted concept of God are in a position to even really put up a debate, as far as I'm concerned. I don't believe, and I never think any chance of God existing is better than 50%, but at least some conceptions of pantheism, panentheism, and deism might actually get to around that 50% mark. The more you heap on details about what God is, and things that ought to be observable or testable yet have not been found to be so, the more dubious God's existence becomes.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  3. #273
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I think they bring it on themselves for the most part, being the most disliked I mean.

    They'd be so upset to think no cared enough to give a shit about them.

  4. #274
    is indra's Avatar
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  5. #275
    Senior Member Passacaglia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I think they bring it on themselves for the most part, being the most disliked I mean.
    Hey, if blaming the victim helps you sleep at night...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    They'd be so upset to think no cared enough to give a shit about them.
    If only! But missionaries, evangelists, and those door-to-door folks have already proven you wrong. Which, as a Catholic shouldn't be surprising to you. Big religions get big by caring about non-believers, one way or the other.

    And I suspect that you care about us too, or you wouldn't be posting even more flame-bait in a five year old thread about atheism.
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  6. #276
    Senior Member Passacaglia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    This is why only people proposing the most abstracted concept of God are in a position to even really put up a debate, as far as I'm concerned. I don't believe, and I never think any chance of God existing is better than 50%, but at least some conceptions of pantheism, panentheism, and deism might actually get to around that 50% mark. The more you heap on details about what God is, and things that ought to be observable or testable yet have not been found to be so, the more dubious God's existence becomes.
    You hit the nail on the head here!

    I'd say that even assuming just one god rather than multiple gods is assumption #2, which brings P down to 25%.

  7. #277
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tippo View Post
    Applicable to all who have conviction, to believe in anything without scientific proof is moronic, hence atheists are just as foolish to express their views as absolute without proof.
    Irony....
    If you have scientific proof for something, it is not a belief but rather a conclusion accepted because of that proof. Belief, almost by definition, is acceptance in the absence of proof.

    Quote Originally Posted by Passacaglia View Post
    Person 1: There's an invisible man named Edlund behind you, friend! You must praise his name while jumping on one foot every Tuesday, or he will one day punish you for your sins!

    Person 2: No there isn't.

    Neither person can be absolutely sure he's right, but one is making a much much bigger assumption than the other, and one assumption is clearly more reasonable than the other.
    In the words of Carl Sagan, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
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  8. #278
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    If you have scientific proof for something, it is not a belief but rather a conclusion accepted because of that proof. Belief, almost by definition, is acceptance in the absence of proof.


    In the words of Carl Sagan, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
    Yeah, any God which could be subject to proof as you describe would be no God.

    This is human, all too human reasoning which doesnt apply in that manner to God or these sorts of matters. Is a shame but it also misses the point, Wittgenstein wrote the last word on the topic from the standpoint of a theist and Bertrand Russell and Erich Fromm from the standpoints of atheism/naturalism and non-theism.

    Energies and attentions would be better spent focused on other things.

  9. #279
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Yeah, any God which could be subject to proof as you describe would be no God.
    How do you know that?
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  10. #280
    Senior Member Passacaglia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Yeah, any God which could be subject to proof as you describe would be no God.

    This is human, all too human reasoning which doesnt apply in that manner to God or these sorts of matters. Is a shame but it also misses the point, Wittgenstein wrote the last word on the topic from the standpoint of a theist and Bertrand Russell and Erich Fromm from the standpoints of atheism/naturalism and non-theism.

    Energies and attentions would be better spent focused on other things.
    I'm curious: Do all gods get a free pass to avoid dealing with reason, or just your god?
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