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  1. #191
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xNTP View Post
    What I don't get, however, is why you think behaving the same way for different reasons (fear of punishment vs. genuine care) really matters. Seems like we should value them the same.
    Really? I don't believe that.
    Motives are important to me. More important than behaviour.
    Important because of how genuine care vs. fear of punishment makes both the giver and the receiver (of said care) feel, and important because of what happens when the thing that is acting as restraint on the God-fearing person (fear of punishment) is removed. I've seen what happens when very devout people lose their faith - sometimes they turn into amoral monsters. I'm also thinking about the things devout people are able to do in the name of faith - sometimes shocking acts of atrocity. Morality has to be based on genuine concern for the well-being of others, or it is a flimsy, meaningless thing tossed about by prevailing winds.

    I sound really Fi right now. :\
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  2. #192
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keps Mnemnosyne View Post
    When I was an atheist, people seemed to be more curious about why I was an atheist. I convinced someone to become an atheist when they asked why I was an atheist. When I became Catholic, people seemed to become argumentative with a "You are a sheep" or a "You are going to hell" and just more offensive in general. That might be due to age differences though.

    I would be accepting of my childrens' marriage to an atheist, but I am less accepting of those who are of certainty of either side.
    That final point is a really good measure of how acceptable the opinions of others are.

  3. #193
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C.J.Woolf View Post
    Indeed. Seminarians have said that loss of faith is an occupational hazard of going to seminary.
    I knew someone at college who I thought was strange, he was training as a social worker, he had completed two years at the seminary training for the priesthood. As part of his training he had to do a degree in philosophy or something like that, it provoked some sort of crisis and he dropped out of the studies and decided the priesthood wasnt for him. Strangely he didnt attend mass or anything like that but decorated his room like a chapel with all the regalia associated with it.

    I never met anyone as desperate for a date in my life, used to drink a lot too, when he got a girlfriend eventually it sort of effected a total transformation in his character and he was fine.

    Its funny when I see that and it totally confirms some of the things I've read in Jung about maturation and second half life span development. I think that spiritual direction and mission or vocation should only be undertaken by people who have completed all the challenges associated with early to mid life or feel they have or dont feel any really strong compulstion to direct their energies that way.

  4. #194
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    ...

    Dawkins is right....

    So I'd say that what you blame to Dawkins's speeches, paradoxally is his HONESTY, because the man is obviously saying loud what everybody in the Academia is really thinking in secret. I know it's not politically correct, but then, it's closer to the truth.

    .
    I just came across this today. It's not a really good article and I don't agree with much of it, but it gives some idea of the problems with Dawkins' atheism work.

    Atheism Will Never Succeed in Undermining the Christian Faith | The Christian Post Singapore
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    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

  5. #195
    Sniffles
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    IIRC, CS Lewis argued that Christianity's greatest challenge will comes from pantheism, not atheism.

  6. #196
    Senior Member Stevo's Avatar
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  7. #197
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    I just came across this today. It's not a really good article and I don't agree with much of it, but it gives some idea of the problems with Dawkins' atheism work.

    Atheism Will Never Succeed in Undermining the Christian Faith | The Christian Post Singapore
    Wikipedia
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  8. #198
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentMind View Post
    I think there's something wrong with that page or my computer. All I see are lines for "Christian" "no religion" and "other religion". I can't view the whole thing.

    What is it?
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

  9. #199
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    I think there's something wrong with that page or my computer. All I see are lines for "Christian" "no religion" and "other religion". I can't view the whole thing.

    What is it?
    Well, it was a lazy attempt at hinting that religion is being undermined. Anyways, here is the wiki:

    Demographics of atheism

    And here is your answer:

    The graph below shows the trends of people who self-classify as Christian, Non-Christian Religions and Non-Believers as measured by the British Social Attitudes Survey between 1983 and 2007
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  10. #200
    Member promethathustra's Avatar
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    Motives more important than consequences??? "The road to hell is paved with good intentions. ???? Very deontological. Cannot disagree more!!! Try teleological instead. Only the goal of a moral code can make it right. It must be measured by the ability to achieve its goal...otherwise discard...regardless of how we feel (really...intp?) about it.

    Just check it out...all I'm saying...
    "This fearless one always is the same in essence,however.He is Holy heresy born stout lacking the ability to cower or break.The Universe is transparent to him." Me

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