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  1. #171
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentMind View Post
    Nah, theists have the biggest persecution complex. They are the most persecuted minority evarrrr.
    Hmm, wouldnt be so sure about that from the cartoon.

    Although if I'm representative of theism, which I'm not suggesting, then theists arent rushing to play the role of victim.

  2. #172
    THIS bitch stringstheory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Hmm, wouldnt be so sure about that from the cartoon.

    Although if I'm representative of theism, which I'm not suggesting, then theists arent rushing to play the role of victim.
    Perhaps it's a cultural thing here in the States? because this line of thinking is not uncommon here. most notably is when people get up in arms concerning the "War on Christmas" meme that gets started up during the Holiday season; apparently by recognizing the fact that other holy days are happening this time of the year.

    Persecution is coming to America, Josef Tson tells seminary students - Christian Persecution Information
    'War' on Christians Is Alleged
    Best Buy bans MERRY CHRISTMAS in their stores

    Meanwhile:
    State Constitutions that Discriminate Against Atheists

    now of course you have many countries like Sudan where Christians are actually being persecuted and i think the number of people crying persecution in a country where Christianity is the majority, while getting up in arms about a "non-Christian" president is troublesome and takes away attention from serious issues of persecution.
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  3. #173
    Sniffles
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    It's not the fact other holidays are celebrated around the same time as Christmas; in fact those holidays are quite minor in their respective traditions compared to what Christmas is in Christianity. Me and Haphazard discussed this before how Hanukahh was actually propped up to be the Jewish Christmas of sorts.

  4. #174
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    The primary difference between the two celebrations are that Hanukkah is Jewish, and at least pertains to Jews in the ethnic or religious sense.

    Meanwhile, the celebration of Christmas is largely a secular event and deals more with consumerist culture than Christendom.

  5. #175
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    Fair enough, but i don't see that as any reason to recognize Christmas and ignore other holidays that, regardless of importance, are still happening; the point is that not everyone is celebrating Christmas and to act as such is making assumptions that can be quite offensive or annoying to some. That and it's not like we recognize the more important traditions of non-Christan religions when they DO occur at other points of the year.
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  6. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringstheory View Post
    Fair enough, but i don't see that as any reason to recognize Christmas and ignore other holidays that, regardless of importance, are still happening;
    For the simple reason we are a majority Christian nation and founded upon principles related to the Christian faith. Doesn't mean people can't celebrate other holidays, they have that right. Celebrating Christmas does not necessarily imply a big FU to the others.

    the point is that not everyone is celebrating Christmas and to act as such is making assumptions that can be quite offensive or annoying to some.
    Who exactly gets offended by this? I really have yet to hear from most non-Christians that they are offended. Just like if I lived in a Muslim dominated country I wouldn't be offended by most attention being given to Islamic holidays.

  7. #177
    THIS bitch stringstheory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Who exactly gets offended by this? I really have yet to hear from most non-Christians that they are offended. Just like if I lived in a Muslim dominated country I wouldn't be offended by most attention being given to Islamic holidays.
    Just because you don't know anyone who would be offended, or that you yourself wouldn't be offended, doesn't mean others don't exist.

    also you are distracting from the point that claiming that such recognitions are a "War on Christmas" is, as far as i'm concerned, crying "persecution". Especially since, as pointed out by Mystic Tater, Christmas has become a celebration of consumerism. Lark claimed that theists aren't rushing out to cry persecution when in fact there are plenty that are. I propose that there are probably just as many Christians making this claim as there are atheists. The only difference is that they are in the majority.
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  8. #178
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    I've never met anyone who was offended by the phrase "Merry Christmas". It's pretty much embedded into our culture now. My Jewish friends really couldn't care less.

    The phrase "Happy Holidays" is meant to be pluralistic in nature. This sort of pluralism is given by the more secular parts of our culture. Since Christmas is really more of a secular exercise now in days, I'm not really sure how "Happy Holidays" does anything to change the situation. "Merry Christmas" and "Happy Holidays" are almost synonymous in my mind.

    Christians have the opportunity to worship 365 days of the year. So do Jews. Nothing's stopping anybody. A simple gesture isn't going to somehow erase the history that Religious folk find meaningful. And, if they find that gesture offensive, they hardly have their priorities in line.

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  9. #179
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    So then why all the fuss about the War on Christmas? And why are people getting so up in arms about the use of Happy Holidays, if it's not such a big deal?
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  10. #180
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringstheory View Post
    Just because you don't know anyone who would be offended, or that you yourself wouldn't be offended, doesn't mean others don't exist.
    You're more than free to present such cases.

    also you are distracting from the point that claiming that such recognitions are a "War on Christmas" is, as far as i'm concerned, crying "persecution". Especially since, as pointed out by Mystic Tater, Christmas has become a celebration of consumerism.
    Yes unfortunately that is the case. The actual meaning behind Christmas has been lost. How and why that has occured in an interesting discussion in of itself.

    Lark claimed that theists aren't rushing out to cry persecution when in fact there are plenty that are. I propose that there are probably just as many Christians making this claim as there are atheists. The only difference is that they are in the majority.
    While they may overstate the case for being persecuted(certainly in the same sense as in the first century or in the Sudan as you mentioned); nevertheless a legitimate concern can be raised as to why the majority necessarily has to pander to the supposed sensibilities of minorities.

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