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  1. #11
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    I share this sentiment. I don't even like Christmas, but this mindset can only benefit the largest number of people.
    You are kidding me! This really is what Robert Tressel was talking about when he had his socialist characters in the novel call their capitalist colleagues raggedy trouserd philanthropists!

    There's no guarantee that it'll help anyone, I dont see biotech mega corps doing anything for free, in fact I see them sweating like a bitch any time any shit poor third world nation tries to create generic drugs or treatments for their own populations, forget music, that's where the real intellectual property rights battles are being fought out.

    So what you have are people will to let megacorps harvest their organs and cells and what not for free and translate that into mega bucks for their boards and shareholders, then rip off everyone to sell whatever break throughs come out of the whole deal.

    Who benefits? And you cant even pretend that you, you yourself, your body, at least, isnt a commodity like anything else. I remember when people saying they could "buy and sell you" was an insult.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    People who sell their hair in India for weaves get money from it. However, many people here donate hair for wigs for chemo patients.

    I don't see why you can't have a choice as to whether your tissues get donated or not, or if people were even given a little money for it, if just for insurance against such claims. I mean, hey, they're your cancer cells, what are you going to do with them? let us take them off your hands for you, $10 (note, if we make any miraculous scientific discoveries with this, that's all the compensation you get).
    Well, I kind of take your point, in theory under capitalism we compensate people for sacrifices and risks, although presently in the example of biotech there's even worse imperfect information than usual, so people make seriously bad deals or are out right exploited.

    If you take your example of the hair dealers, what if they didnt know that they could sell their hair but randomly their chief or husband told them to cut their hair every month and they'd not a clue what was happening to it once it was taken from them or say they get fifty pence for it all and the retailer makes £100 a wig and other costs just amount to like £30.

    The harvested cells are generally the gift that keeps on giving and the mark ups and revenues over time are collossal compared to the initial outlay to the supplier, if there is outlay at all, generally its snuck in with the "well you wherent using this, hey, saving lives dude, its all refuse anyway, what do you care?" speel.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    You are kidding me! This really is what Robert Tressel was talking about when he had his socialist characters in the novel call their capitalist colleagues raggedy trouserd philanthropists!

    There's no guarantee that it'll help anyone, I dont see biotech mega corps doing anything for free, in fact I see them sweating like a bitch any time any shit poor third world nation tries to create generic drugs or treatments for their own populations, forget music, that's where the real intellectual property rights battles are being fought out.

    So what you have are people will to let megacorps harvest their organs and cells and what not for free and translate that into mega bucks for their boards and shareholders, then rip off everyone to sell whatever break throughs come out of the whole deal.

    Who benefits? And you cant even pretend that you, you yourself, your body, at least, isnt a commodity like anything else. I remember when people saying they could "buy and sell you" was an insult.
    Sounds like you really, really need to cash in on this market. Buy some mega-corp stocks or something. With your passion and the $$$-generating power of my leftover parts, there could be much profit to be had.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Sounds like you really, really need to cash in on this market. Buy some mega-corp stocks or something. With your passion and the $$$-generating power of my leftover parts, there could be much profit to be had.
    Yeah, nice see you trying to put the captialising drive back onto me, well alright, suppose I feel that my body is my property and that's one of the first and most legitimate versions of proprietorship, you feel differently and that's grand.

  5. #15
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    The harvested cells are generally the gift that keeps on giving and the mark ups and revenues over time are collossal compared to the initial outlay to the supplier, if there is outlay at all, generally its snuck in with the "well you wherent using this, hey, saving lives dude, its all refuse anyway, what do you care?" speel.
    I know, saving lives is so pedestrian when there could be money to be made from your discarded skin cells.

    By the way, it's not usually the "mega biotech firms" that get these things from people. They tend to use established cell lines, etc. because they know they work. The people who usually end up with new tissue samples are typically university and hospital research labs who aren't as focused on the end dollar.

    It's sickening to me that attitudes like this could potentially stop someone from donating something useless (to them) that can further science just because they don't want anyone in the world to get richer (or healthier, presumably).

    It's not like they're strapping you down to harvest your organs. This is as silly as refusing to sign an organ donor card because you don't want a millionaire to get any new organs which could help them make money in the future.
    -end of thread-

  6. #16
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    I know, saving lives is so pedestrian when there could be money to be made from your discarded skin cells.

    By the way, it's not usually the "mega biotech firms" that get these things from people. They tend to use established cell lines, etc. because they know they work. The people who usually end up with new tissue samples are typically university and hospital research labs who aren't as focused on the end dollar.

    It's sickening to me that attitudes like this could potentially stop someone from donating something useless (to them) that can further science just because they don't want anyone in the world to get richer (or healthier, presumably).

    It's not like they're strapping you down to harvest your organs. This is as silly as refusing to sign an organ donor card because you don't want a millionaire to get any new organs which could help them make money in the future.
    No its not like they are but dont you think its terrible that you can get ripped off?

    I've no problems with people making money but I have a problem when people exploit the ignorance of other people to create revenues and exclude them from the profits, its a market failure and health and biotech which has major imperfect information problems is a fine example of it.

    I do not believe its the same as refusing to donate organs to millionaires, the decisions about what happens to organs are made by panels of health professionals and they debate the relative merits and generally whether healthy organs will be abused. That's sufficient for me, its not the same as the biotech actions I'm talking about, you could be admitted for a simple procedure, sign a waver for the use of your cells only to have to pay exorbitant health costs to purchase health products or services which wouldnt have been available if you had not provided the cells in the first place.

    Existing cell chains are used and thats correct but medical mysteries or people with unique problems or cell structures are frequently exploited in this way, the one case I'm familiar with was someone in 1973 who only halted conscent at the last moment when he became suspiscious that he had been put up in five star hotels etc. but offered no remuneration or compensation at any later date. He nearly gave away for free what was multi-million dollar grossing cells when he'd been virtually bankrupted with health bills.

  7. #17
    Klingon Warrior Princess Patches's Avatar
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    Just out of curiousity, Lark - Have you read Micheal Crichton's Next? Most of your first post sounds like the cliff notes to that book.
    “Everybody has a secret world inside of them. All of the people of the world, I mean everybody. No matter how dull and boring they are on the outside, inside
    them they've all got unimaginable, magnificent, wonderful, stupid, amazing worlds. Not just one world. Hundreds of them. Thousands maybe.” -Neil Gaiman

    ~

  8. #18
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patches View Post
    Just out of curiousity, Lark - Have you read Micheal Crichton's Next? Most of your first post sounds like the cliff notes to that book.


    I wouldn't be surprised.

  9. #19
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Megan Fox owns my body
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  10. #20
    Aquaria mrcockburn's Avatar
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    hmmm....

    Technically, since you own whatever you make (unless doing so on the behalf of someone else), technically your parents would own your body.

    But that's false, too. They didn't create life. God or the Big Bang (or whatever other theory) did. So your body could be indebted to an atom.

    Though, you could think of the God/Atom as the manufacturer. Your parents as wholesale...and then you are retail, since by breathing and eating when you were born, you chose to live. On credit of course. You'll have to pay back and die someday. With interest...you shall one day fertilize the ground and provide life to earthworms and poppies.
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    http://sundrytimes.files.wordpress.c...tomic-bomb.jpg


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