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  1. #81
    Sniffles
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    Perfectly fine with me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    But what's that got to do with anything? I'm confused.
    Who knows, but oh well.

  2. #82
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'm a bit unsure how to respond to this, its clear that you think that the RC church is the only institution to provide its followers with any kind of direction and that this is some sort of totalitarian or dictatorial undertaking. If that is what you believe I'll not try to convince you otherwise but its not true.

    Maintaining that everything is a matter of individual conscience and inspiration can lead to pretty incredible and awful things, for one the kind of moral relativism which either paralyses people judgement or prevents them reaching a conclusion and making a judgement even when its patently obvious what that judgement should be and the sorts of harm which will be wrought by refusing to pass judgement at all.

    The RC church is far from the only source of guidance and direction out there, for the most part you could do a hell of a lot worse. I dont think it'd be a great idea to maintain a hue and cry against sinning priests purely to try and provoke RCs to abandon the church or migrate to other faiths in order to bankrupt the church and therefore wipe out whatever, marginal I've got to say, political influence it may have.

    That's seriously short sighted about the RC church as an institution, tradition, source of memory and spiritual guide, its crazy to suggest that simply because it can not be reconciled to popular vogues or trends that it should perish altogether. Its also pretty telling because if that is the view of the purveyors of homosexual "marriage" in the western, secular, liberal democracies then its not a lot different from the attitudes of Communists in Russia, China, North Korea and elsewhere or the fascists in their day because the church would not reconcile itself to their orthodoxies.
    Larky dearest, that's not what I mean at all, and I'm sorry I'm expressing myself badly. Please don't think that I mean those things and let's talk about it another time. I really don't mean what you said above.

  3. #83
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Celibacy for spiritual reasons goes back to the Bhagvad Gita. The Catholic church did not make it up.

    http://www.hermetics.org/pdf/Bhagvad_Gita.PDF

  4. #84
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Celibacy for spiritual reasons goes back to the Bhagvad Gita. The Catholic church did not make it up.

    http://www.hermetics.org/pdf/Bhagvad_Gita.PDF
    What?

    Is there like three or four different conversations happening here because I dont know where that came from.

  5. #85
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Homosexual clergy invited to leave the Catholic Priesthood

    And now because the Church doesn't want the guys in the OP video, people (the secular socialists of course) will paint the Church condemnatory of all homosexuals, regardless of vows or homosexual activity.

    What the news won't tell you is that scandals like this happen outiside the church just as frequently or moreso. Likely, instead of celibacy, the sexual activity and deviance is spurred by the ultra sex-centered Western world that we all, including the clergy, live in.

    There's no horse so dead you can't beat it one more time.
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

  6. #86
    Sniffles
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    Non-celibate clergy actually face greater proportions of sex scandals than the Catholic Church. I've pointed out many times how public schools suffer from pedophiles far more than the priesthood. I would go more into details of this, but I'm just getting tired of having to repeat myself time after time after time after time after time.

  7. #87
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    But what's that got to do with anything? I'm confused.
    It's like earlier - I would argue from an angle regarding the Church as a political organization, and he'd argue that it's something different, as a religious organization, and we'd talk past each other and get nowhere.

    His (and I'm assuming yours) perspective is that ultimately, the Holy Mother Church is capital-R Right about things, and that's one I simply don't share, and am likely not to share any time soon. So it's to the best that we not dance around in such pointless circles.

  8. #88
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    Homosexual clergy invited to leave the Catholic Priesthood

    And now because the Church doesn't want the guys in the OP video, people (the secular socialists of course) will paint the Church condemnatory of all homosexuals, regardless of vows or homosexual activity.

    What the news won't tell you is that scandals like this happen outiside the church just as frequently or moreso. Likely, instead of celibacy, the sexual activity and deviance is spurred by the ultra sex-centered Western world that we all, including the clergy, live in.

    There's no horse so dead you can't beat it one more time.
    Best point in thread just there.

    Although to be truthful, unless you're using those words in a broader more prejorative sense, secular socialists dont number enough or have any capacity to make any points what so ever.

  9. #89
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Best point in thread just there.

    Although to be truthful, unless you're using those words in a broader more prejorative sense, secular socialists dont number enough or have any capacity to make any points what so ever.
    The article is based off another article from a S.S. source. Which is the only reason I specifically mention them. Others share the blame.
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

  10. #90
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Non-celibate clergy actually face greater proportions of sex scandals than the Catholic Church. I've pointed out many times how public schools suffer from pedophiles far more than the priesthood. I would go more into details of this, but I'm just getting tired of having to repeat myself time after time after time after time after time.
    I'm inclined to agree with that too, here in Ireland the country is reeling from its scandals south side of the border but in the north of the country there was the Kincora scandal in which state orphanages where procuring young boys for politicians and its been virtually wiped from public record and memory, I think the orange order or unionists where some how implicated in that one.

    To be honest I think there's another agenda behind the attacks on the Church, not least of which is finding a scape goat and someone to carry the can for widespread and general social collusion or complicity with abuse, clericism, corruption etc.

    Its the same "Not I but them" as when the UK publicises a childs murder in the UK and the first thing they want to do is lynch a social worker or some other professional. It's always a case of "My conscience is clear, its them; them, them, them; them I tell you".

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