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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pixelholic View Post
    There's a case study that has documented this witness effect where a number of people will see a crime and no one will do anything about it. One of the more famous cases was a woman who was murdered pretty much in public and at least a hundred people saw it and no one did anything.

    I always assumed it was a fairly American thing since we're sort of indoctrinated to be selfish and untrustworthy of others.
    That case gets a mention, it was meant to be a fatal stabbing which was witnessed by something like thirty people and was the result of prolonged assault on a foot path outside the victims home but when it was clarified no one had actually seen it.

    The idea that we are by nature selfish and cowardly is really challenged by the researchers in this piece, they even suggest that contrary to popular belief the smaller the audience the more likely a bystander will intervene, the reason being the prospect of embarrassment should you intervene and things go wrong in front of a larger audience, or so they say.

  2. #12
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Like what Jennifer said?

  3. #13
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bananatrombones View Post
    Like what Jennifer said?
    Maybe I'm on Ignore.

    ps. Footpath? I guess that must be something in cities in Ireland.
    In NYC, we call that either a parking lot or an alley.
    She also lived in an apartment building, not a home.
    ...Whatever.


    There are many supposed reasons that people might not involve themselves:
    1. Embarrassment over doing the wrong thing.
    2. Thinking that someone else has more knowledge / could do a better job and not wanting to presume they know better.
    3. Not sure who is going to do something (so everyone waits, as to not step on someone else's toes).
    4. Uncertainty about what exactly is occurring and not wanting to intrude. (This gets even worse if everyone else is not responding, hence the person questions their own judgment.)

    With less people around, some of these concerns dwindle and at some point the "tipping point" is reached and people start to intervene.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #14
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Maybe I'm on Ignore.
    Well I'll just have to quote it then. This way Lark won't need to ask a mod for instructions on how to show the post. Or even "log out", to use a technical term. Those control panel thingies can be tricky. :workout:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Well, that's the urban myth version of Kitty Genovese.

    The nuances are described here:
    Kitty Genovese - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    For a few qualifiers:
    - The attack started at 3:15am... many people were asleep.
    - The guy left, then came back twice; meaning it wasn't clear when the attack was over.
    - She crawled out of view so people thought she had gotten away.

    Most importantly:


    But you can read it in detail. It's pretty much more a parable nowadays than a historical retelling of the murder.
    Edit. Wait a minute. He won't see this. Lol.
    Last edited by matmos; 07-23-2010 at 03:00 PM. Reason: Who knows?

  5. #15
    Senior Member Pixelholic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Depends on what your definition of "underhanded" is. Boycotting is fine. Bringing pressure from government is more problematic. I don't know the details of this, so I won't comment as to the legitimacy. For a long time, supermarkets didn't want to move into high-crime areas because of the the higher cost of doing business from theft. It's a shame, but poorer inner-city people end up paying upwards of 20% more for common food items because of the extra costs of doing business associated with their areas, even when the vast majority of customers are law-abiding citizens. I worked in an inner-city supermarket for a while. It was at the edge of my old college campus, on the border of a gentrified area and a working-class African-American neighborhood.
    Part of their talks with the supermarket chain was that because they had taken steps to lower crime then it would be profitable for the market and that the market itself would lower crime and that this would be a big PR win for them. This was a neighborhood that had nothing but a liquor stores and a Mcdonalds.

    How do you mean exactly?
    It would be hard to get into without derailing the thread. At least in the states you have a lot of talk about inalienable rights without any emphasis put on individual or societal responsibility.

    There are many supposed reasons that people might not involve themselves:
    1. Embarrassment over doing the wrong thing.
    2. Thinking that someone else has more knowledge / could do a better job and not wanting to presume they know better.
    3. Not sure who is going to do something (so everyone waits, as to not step on someone else's toes).
    4. Uncertainty about what exactly is occurring and not wanting to intrude. (This gets even worse if everyone else is not responding, hence the person questions their own judgment.)

    With less people around, some of these concerns dwindle and at some point the "tipping point" is reached and people start to intervene.
    This sounds about right. Is there something that can be done to change this so that there is a more community oriented look at helping people? Right now it seems that people are so afraid of the other that they'd rather just live afraid and sheltered from people. That's my experience anyway. I know I've gotten threatened a couple times from people when I'm trying to be friendly (granted, I'm a tall guy and I look imposing, but I try not to come off as a would-be attacker.)
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.” -Nietzsche

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Maybe I'm on Ignore.

    ps. Footpath? I guess that must be something in cities in Ireland.
    In NYC, we call that either a parking lot or an alley.
    She also lived in an apartment building, not a home.
    ...Whatever.


    There are many supposed reasons that people might not involve themselves:
    1. Embarrassment over doing the wrong thing.
    2. Thinking that someone else has more knowledge / could do a better job and not wanting to presume they know better.
    3. Not sure who is going to do something (so everyone waits, as to not step on someone else's toes).
    4. Uncertainty about what exactly is occurring and not wanting to intrude. (This gets even worse if everyone else is not responding, hence the person questions their own judgment.)

    With less people around, some of these concerns dwindle and at some point the "tipping point" is reached and people start to intervene.
    You're not on ignore.

    I was just referencing something from the piece I posted a link to because it didnt seem like the other poster had listened to it, then again maybe its not available or something it is BBC and might be UK only. I didnt think of that.

  7. #17
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pixelholic View Post
    This sounds about right. Is there something that can be done to change this so that there is a more community oriented look at helping people? Right now it seems that people are so afraid of the other that they'd rather just live afraid and sheltered from people. That's my experience anyway. I know I've gotten threatened a couple times from people when I'm trying to be friendly (granted, I'm a tall guy and I look imposing, but I try not to come off as a would-be attacker.)
    Well, I think neighborhood watch is more successful because people have basically clarified up front, "This is everyone's job, we are all a part of this, and we are working together, and <here> is the sort of stuff that needs to be reported." IOW, the responsibility does not have to be spontaneously allocated and/or decided upon when the event occurs, everyone has their responsibilities determined before anything happens.

    I think this is one of the best ways to do it. It's why companies (and other sorts of groups) train people what to do in emergencies.

    It's kind of hard to control how someone individually feels or what level of responsibility they should take in a given situation, but you can negotiate how things work with a group of willing participants.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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