User Tag List

View Poll Results: Which do you value more

Voters
24. You may not vote on this poll
  • Improvement

    17 70.83%
  • Success

    7 29.17%
First 123

Results 21 to 29 of 29

  1. #21
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INtp
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/so
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    5,091

    Default

    Interesting question but I was unable to decide. I find both necessary for my self-esteem.

    You can improve and still not be a success (going from a grade of F to a grade of a D in a course is an example)

    On the other hand, even if I'm successfull, I still strive to do even better. I don't want to just reach a plateau and stay there.
    INtp
    5w6 or 9w1 sp/so/sx, I think
    Ravenclaw/Hufflepuff
    Neutral Good
    LII-Ne




  2. #22
    Lungs & Lips Locked Unkindloving's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Socionics
    ENFj
    Posts
    2,900

    Default

    Personally, I view the aim of success to be easily rendered baseless.
    What is to keep it satisfying at the top if there is no true ground beneath you? This isn't to say the ground needs to be stacked up like legos, but there should be steps and solidity under you wherever you stand. I've found that you can find out what you want to build under if your aim is improvement. At a point, it all had to even out.
    It's hard to not be successful to yourself if you are consistently trying to improve.
    It's easy to not be successful to society if you're not consistently trying to be successful.

    This isn't to say that success is a wrong direction. It's merely to say that too many people run up the ladder too quickly to notice that they've not built any/many rungs. By the time they think they can stop, it becomes apparent they need to keep quick-footed like Looney Tunes to maintain it.

    Improvement can do much of the same, as noted with the legos. When you're done intricately constructing a few steps, you find you've not accomplished much at all and that there are still miles to piece together.
    Hang on traveling woman - Don't sacrifice your plan
    Cause it will come back to you - Before you lose it on the man


    .:: DWTWD ::.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


    2011 TypeC Exercise Challenge - My Weekly Goals: Cardio 4x. Yoga/Pilates 1x. Pushups 70.

    There is this thing keeping everyone's lungs and lips locked - It is called fear and it's seeing a great renaissance

  3. #23
    Senor Membrane
    Join Date
    May 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    3,190

    Default

    Improvement.

  4. #24
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    699

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    I wasn't entirely sure where to put this thread, so I'll just put it here because it ties into the general social atmosphere.

    So which do you value more, improvement or success?

    Both of these concepts are intertwined, and do have a bearing on each other in real life, but which one do you value more and why?

    Let's give a visual of each and how they manifest themselves...

    A smith who focuses on improvement works, studies, and gets as much experience as possible to hone his craft. The act of smithing itself is a personal quest for perfection that is never satiated. He may be in competition with himself or with other smiths, but he competes to set the bar one notch higher. If this smith was a football coach, he would chant, "You play to perfect your game".
    This is my style and it rewards so well. The thing about improvement is that you must be thoroughly engaged to focus on this to the exclusion of surrounding politics, those who feel that they want to compete with you, and have sufficient patience to be satisfied that you are moving in the right direction.

    I encourage this in my students and encourage them to take responsibility, financially and time-wise for their own continued professional development. So many times have I seen those focussed on success only to reach it and find an empty vessel, and a broken ladder for all of the people they have stepped on on the way up.

    I have a word for the salesman type hype you allude to in successful politicians and the "salesmen" of our world - I call it the prostitution of psychology generally used to manipulate people into buying whatever is being sold.

    I find it interesting that many ex students who have dropped out of psychology studies go into marketing or sales????
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
    author unknown

  5. #25
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    6w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    9,489

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by InsatiableCuriosity View Post

    I find it interesting that many ex students who have dropped out of psychology studies go into marketing or sales????
    Really? I can't think of a more natural background for marketing. It's almost perfect preparation

    one of my friends is doing a degree in marketing after a bachelors in psychology, actually. makes perfect sense to me.

    maybe the difference is I don't think either subject is good or evil?
    -end of thread-

  6. #26
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ISFJ
    Posts
    6,020

    Default

    I voted improvement. Success....working towards a long term goal isn't my style.

    I will say though, I don't feel better about myself by improving. Only successes feed my ego.

  7. #27
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    699

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    Really? I can't think of a more natural background for marketing. It's almost perfect preparation

    one of my friends is doing a degree in marketing after a bachelors in psychology, actually. makes perfect sense to me.

    maybe the difference is I don't think either subject is good or evil?

    I think you missed my point - my observations (ie my own experiences) were about those who hadn't completed their psych undergrad degrees. I don't think as a whole there is anything wrong with marketing as a professional endeavour BUT there are those who would pervert statistics with loaded questions based on their understanding of psychology and how people work.

    In fact similarly to the pyramid selling discussed here recently. Some of the experiences I and others I know have had definitely point to a prostitution of psychology!
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
    author unknown

  8. #28
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    481

    Default

    Success easily.

    I'll put it this way:

    You go from an 0-16 football team to 8-8 but still miss the playoffs. Improvement.
    Your team wins the super bowl. SUCCESS.

    Which one is better?

    Furthermore, success implies improvement, but not vice versa.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  9. #29
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    17,899

    Default

    I think an analogy might be:

    Success = Results
    Improvement = Process

    It depends on the person. I'd say success since results to me are more important than process. That's the way I'm wired. They're both important. There are some people who are much more about the process of getting there, so they'd legitimately say improvement.

    Then again, it all depends on how you define success. The picture of success most generally perceived by western culture is probably not so important at all.

    When we look back on our lives, the journey probably matters more than improvement or success. The "life lived for others" analogy is probably idealistic but true.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

    Tri-type 639

Similar Threads

  1. [NT] On values. Stability vs plasticity. Recursive self improvement. Pure P.
    By ocean in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-03-2010, 10:08 AM
  2. ambition/success in society vs. following your passions
    By Grayscale in forum Academics and Careers
    Replies: 76
    Last Post: 01-09-2009, 06:44 AM
  3. MBTI vs the MBTI Step II test
    By Totenkindly in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 05-31-2008, 09:25 PM
  4. Improving one's Vocabulary, Grammar and Spelling?
    By Noel in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-05-2007, 08:18 PM
  5. Does SJ vs SP account for gender bias?
    By Tayshaun in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-17-2007, 08:11 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO