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  1. #81
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    I love that the French say This is French. This is not French. In France, we live as French people. The French do not wear burqas. There's an end to it. It's not even a matter of right and wrong, but a matter of clear distinction between Me and Not Me.
    Yes, I totally dig this. It's actually sad that so many cultures are indoctrinated by excessive political correctness to the point they really have no cultural identity. All of this I'm OK, you're OK shit has gone too far. When in Rome, do as the Romans do, right? In the middle east, governments are fine with forcing western women to dawn bathrobes and face veils, so I am fine with them being banned in western countries, at those with the balls to do as such.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Although on the subject of burqas, sometimes I think it would be a huge relief and I wouldn't mind it at all. Picking out outfits is a nuisance. Think of the time you'd save.
    If it were winter it would be great. In the summer I'll go with shorts and a Polo shirt. I agree that school uniforms have benefits. They limit the degree that kids can focus on needless trivialities like name brands of clothes, and who has Nikes and who doesn't. Plus, like Einstein, those who wear the same thing everyday are freed of having to think if what to wear. Although artisans do not have this issue, our solution is simple, have an exceedingly well stocked wardrobe and it should not take more than a few moments to look your best whether you planned what to wear or not. Excess is what made this country great!
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  2. #82
    Senior Member The Outsider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    I love the French for deciding what will be French and what will not be French. I celebrate and salute them for it.

    You can wear whatever else you want, but you can't wear that here. You can have that culture anywhere else you want, but you can't have it in France.

    It just delights me.
    Is that satire? I can't tell any more.

  3. #83
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    I'm not sure how I feel about this, but I halfway feel that all face coverings should be banned in public, just for legal/safety reasons. Then again, this would probably be a problem for mascots and other costumes, lol.

    It's tough to draw the line between religious freedom and women's rights in matters where so often women are forced into behaviours by their husbands and family (and similarly forced not to say they're being forced, obviously), but still some do choose it themselves for various reasons.
    -end of thread-

  4. #84
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Outsider View Post
    Is that satire? I can't tell any more.
    No, I'm quite serious. I'm giddy with delight that France is holding true to their ideal that their women should be chic and stylish. I know there are other reasons. But whatever the reason, it's refreshing to my soul to see a country proud of and holding onto its aesthetic ideals at least. I like to see people take a stand.

    ETA: "President Nicolas Sarkozy, on the other hand, has expressed that people in France should not be displaying their religious views to the public." I think that's very wise.

  5. #85
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    I'm not sure how I feel about this, but I halfway feel that all face coverings should be banned in public, just for legal/safety reasons. Then again, this would probably be a problem for mascots and other costumes, lol.

    It's tough to draw the line between religious freedom and women's rights in matters where so often women are forced into behaviours by their husbands and family (and similarly forced not to say they're being forced, obviously), but still some do choose it themselves for various reasons.
    Forced wearing should be able to be dealt with under equal opportunity laws in a progressive modern society.

    You have more chances of being robbed by someone in a closed faced motorcycle helmet or a ski mask than by someone in a Burqua!

    Next they will be banning frock coats of the Catholic ministry and Nuns' habits! You never know what you could hide in the beard and locks and frock coat of a Hasidic Jew or Greek Orthodox Minister!
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  6. #86
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Yes, I totally dig this. It's actually sad that so many cultures are indoctrinated by excessive political correctness to the point they really have no cultural identity. All of this I'm OK, you're OK shit has gone too far. When in Rome, do as the Romans do, right? In the middle east, governments are fine with forcing western women to dawn bathrobes and face veils, so I am fine with them being banned in western countries, at those with the balls to do as such.
    Is there excessive "political correctness"? Possibly, there appears at times to be an excessive wariness of offending a few who shout the loudest. This doesn't make, "They tat us over there, so we'll tit them over here!" a good ethical arguement, however. Vengeance never is, funnily enough. Given that most Westerners who are subject to these rules are well-paid migrant workers or holidaymakers who are there because they choose and can leave when they wish, whereas most Muslims who are targetted by this kind of legislation are citizens of or refugees to the country concerned, it's hardly a situation of equivalency either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    No, I'm quite serious. I'm giddy with delight that France is holding true to their ideal that their women should be chic and stylish. I know there are other reasons. But whatever the reason, it's refreshing to my soul to see a country proud of and holding onto its aesthetic ideals at least. I like to see people take a stand.

    ETA: "President Nicolas Sarkozy, on the other hand, has expressed that people in France should not be displaying their religious views to the public." I think that's very wise.
    Quite right, Tiltyred. What else matters in our society or should matter, beyond aesthetics? Appearance is everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by InsatiableCuriosity View Post
    Forced wearing should be able to be dealt with under equal opportunity laws in a progressive modern society.

    You have more chances of being robbed by someone in a closed faced motorcycle helmet or a ski mask than by someone in a Burqua!

    Next they will be banning frock coats of the Catholic ministry and Nuns' habits! You never know what you could hide in the beard and locks and frock coat of a Hasidic Jew or Greek Orthodox Minister!
    But we MIGHT get an epidemic of those poor oppressed scared weak women in Burquas going about on violent crime sprees! Better safe than sorry eh?
    Look into my avatar. Look deep into my avatar...

  7. #87
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsatiableCuriosity View Post
    Forced wearing should be able to be dealt with under equal opportunity laws in a progressive modern society.

    You have more chances of being robbed by someone in a closed faced motorcycle helmet or a ski mask than by someone in a Burqua!
    As to the first, I was referring to the women feeling unable to seek the aid of the law. Of course if the police are aware of it things can be done. If your husband is able to intimidate you into wearing something like that, don't you think he could intimidate you into not contacting the law? Especially in a kind of culture that often has the husband responsible for talking to the outside world?

    As to the second, it should have been pretty clear that I wasn't suggesting Burqua-wearers are criminals! Only that face covering is often used BY criminals to avoid getting caught...hence the stereotyped ski masks, bandanas, etc. I agree that banning Burquas is very unlikely to reduce crime (lol), it's more a matter of principle. And even still I'm undecided whether this is a good idea. I tend to agree that this will mean a lot of these women will be forced indoors!

    I guess the line always has to be drawn to balance freedom with what you think is best for the country. It's always debatable where the line should be.
    -end of thread-

  8. #88
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    I have mixed feelings about this. I suspect that the prohibition is only going to force patriarchal behaviors underground, the oppressed women along with them. So now, instead of being allowed to go out if they are covered, these women just won't be allowed to go out at all so their husbands/fathers are not fined for forcing them to wear the full veil in public.

    jezebel.com has had a lot of very interesting commentary and discussion on this topic:

    France’s Burqa Ban, Hatefully Mansplained
    The Daily Show Takes On The Ironies Of The Burqa Ban
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  9. #89
    Senior Member The Outsider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    No, I'm quite serious. I'm giddy with delight that France is holding true to their ideal that their women should be chic and stylish. I know there are other reasons. But whatever the reason, it's refreshing to my soul to see a country proud of and holding onto its aesthetic ideals at least. I like to see people take a stand.
    Oh I agree, fuck the sandnigger terrorists and their culture. They should stay out of our lands, just like we stay out of theirs.

  10. #90
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    Quite right, Tiltyred. What else matters in our society or should matter, beyond aesthetics? Appearance is everything.
    No. A country having such a well-formed identity and being unashamed to express it makes me happy. I realize this impinges on the ideas of some of the people in that country. Y'all can talk about that; that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the French being proud to be French, knowing what being French is, and not deviating from their Frenchness. Even if they're wrong, I love how fiercely they defend their national identity.

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