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  1. #71
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    This is just the first step in the evil French master plan to make the only appropriate clothing for women tiny, tiny miniskirts.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  2. #72
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    Unless they want to wear a burqa.
    In France in public. I don't think i have ever met a woman who really wanted to wear one all the time and in public. The only women i have met that wanted to wear one were ones that were so ashamed of what they had become they felt safer hidden. Just to clarify, i am referring to women i have met in the u.k who have worn the full burqa.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  3. #73
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    I don't understand why women and men have to do everything exactly the same or else they're not equal.

    And no, I'm not kidding.
    This is disingenuously nonsensical.

    Quote Originally Posted by GemPOPGem View Post
    They don't have to. The point is they have the choice.
    Actually, they don't. It's not a fashion choice, it's a matter of conviction.
    What the French have done is enshrined in law a decision that that conviction is wrong. Now, I happen to agree that the conviction is wrong - it is misguided and rooted in oppression and contempt for women. But once you start making rules about what people are allowed to believe and what they are not - how is that any better than Sharia law?
    I don't know. It just makes me uncomfortable. Not this action, but the precedent it sets.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    I love that the French say This is French. This is not French. In France, we live as French people. The French do not wear burqas. There's an end to it. It's not even a matter of right and wrong, but a matter of clear distinction between Me and Not Me.
    Or "them" and "us".
    Presumably, this means burqa-wearing women visiting from other nations will no longer be welcome in France. What kind of message of intolerance does that send out? Once you have state-sanctioned intolerance, how much of a stretch is it until you reach persecution / hooliganism?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  4. #74
    Senior Member Helios's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    "ARTICLE 9

    1. Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief, in worship, teaching, practice and observance.


    2. Freedom to manifest one's religion or beliefs shall be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of public safety, for the protection of public order, health or morals, or the protection of the rights and freedoms of others."

    European Convention on Human Rights and its Five Protocols
    I doubt that the law will last long.

  5. #75
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helios View Post
    I doubt that the law will last long.
    It hasn't stopped Belgium...

    I don't see how the second point is relevant. As soon as the law is passed it becomes redundant.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  6. #76
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post

    Actually, they don't. It's not a fashion choice, it's a matter of conviction.
    What the French have done is enshrined in law a decision that that conviction is wrong. Now, I happen to agree that the conviction is wrong - it is misguided and rooted in oppression and contempt for women. But once you start making rules about what people are allowed to believe and what they are not - how is that any better than Sharia law?
    I don't know. It just makes me uncomfortable. Not this action, but the precedent it sets.
    Yes i get that, some far right nationalists may feel very empowered by this move and i do get the feeling that for France, this is more about keeping them (Muslims) out rather than freeing or liberating women. I don't know how it will play out but i actually think banning the burqa has possible positive outcomes. Best case scenario is that it spurs a movement by feminist women living in Islamic countries/communities. Stranger things have happened.

    I need to clarify that IMO i do not believe all Muslim women are oppressed, but i certainly believe that the majority are.
    I found a little link, i have noted the fact that it starts with an "against" for the full Burqa and ends with a "for" for the Hijab. There seems to be a lot of confusion in talking about them as if they were the same clothing, they are very different.

    The Burqa: A Symbol of Confidence or Oppression? | Women's Campaign International


    I have not seen any compelling articles written about women wanting to wear the full burqa, only reagrding wearing the Hijab.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  7. #77
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GemPOPGem View Post
    Best case scenario is that it spurs a movement by feminist women living in Islamic countries/communities. Stranger things have happened.
    I think that's highly unlikely.
    Feminist women living in Islamic countries don't typically look to France for their ideology...
    I have not seen any compelling articles written about women wanting to wear the full burqa, only reagrding wearing the Hijab.
    The Hijab is banned in schools.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  8. #78
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    I think that's highly unlikely.
    Feminist women living in Islamic countries don't typically look to France for their ideology...[URL="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/3619988.stm"]

    I imagine not but everything starts somewhere.

    The Hijab is banned in schools.

    Interesting link, i have read it befor now too, but it did not addres the quote of mine you used with it. I said

    I have not seen any compelling articles written about women wanting to wear the full burqa, only reagrding wearing the Hijab.

    Heres another interesting link
    Racism veiled as liberation | Madeleine Bunting | Comment is free | The Guardian
    Last edited by Betty Blue; 07-16-2010 at 08:14 AM. Reason: arragghh, i keep fucking up on the multi quote, damn my impatience
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  9. #79
    Oberon
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    It's that whole Charles Martel thing... Battle of Tours, you know.

  10. #80
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GemPOPGem View Post
    I have not seen any compelling articles written about women wanting to wear the full burqa, only reagrding wearing the Hijab.
    I know. It just jogged a memory.

    Also it was sort of in answer to the person who said the ruling would likely be overturned as a Human Rights violation. That law was passed in 2004.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

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