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  1. #31
    Senior Member Feops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    In "Western" society, it is evident all are free, but some are more free than others. One is free to be "free" in accordance with majority sentiment; but not to impose restrictions on oneself or allow them to be imposed by others in accordance with one's personal beliefs, where these conflict with the sentiment of the majority, and the majoritarian views on what constitutes "freedom". "Freedom" thus equates to "social conformity" to a society that holds dear to the principle of freedom as an ideal to be aspired to, but has forgotten how to put it into practice.
    You can't have complete freedom in a functioning society. Laws by their very nature restrict what people can do.

  2. #32
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Not full face, no. They like their hijab just fine.

    I believe the OP was addressing the full face veil. I have much less of a problem with the hijab.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by GemPOPGem View Post
    "Is it right to force people to embrace freedom?"
    The whole freedom thing is a joke. I don't know why they use it as such a slogan. What would it be like if people were free? Who would like to live in such a world?

    I've been thinking about the position of our immigrants some bit, and there are a lot of problems caused by mixing cultures in a "wrong" way. If they refuse to learn the language, for example. Not only will it cause trouble to them, but also their children and it might lead to little cities that don't speak the same language with the rest of the country. Is it okay to force them to learn at least the language? Every country must make the decision of what it wants to become, and there aren't right choices. The worst choice is to leave the people in some sort of limbo due to politically correct terms. So, I think that France made a good call making it so clear that this is not the direction they want to go. They could have made the opposite choice with similar conviction, and it would have been better than what is going on in many other countries.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis
    We criticize cultures and religions for dictating what people can and cannot wear and then turn around and do likewise?
    Is it any different from the customary practice for Western women to cover themselves up / wear a head scarf when they visit a Muslim country out of respect for local culture?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #35
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    Is it any different from the customary practice for Western women to cover themselves up / wear a head scarf when they visit a Muslim country out of respect for local culture?
    If they are forced to do it by law and not doing it out of respect, then I think that is equally wrong. I never said that women coming to the West and not wearing the burqa out of respect for our culture was wrong.

    I would like to clarify, though, that while I don't like it, I think France does have a right to do as it wishes.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  6. #36
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    I would love to shop nude. Damn this oppression.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    I would love to shop nude. Damn this oppression.
    And this is how we come to an agreement. I truly envy the lax stance on public nudity that seems entirely absent in America.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by GemPOPGem View Post
    Umm...sorry. I was quoting someone else, that was not my original question. I fear i may have confused matters by not using the quote system properly.
    No, no, I kinda just picked up that line and wanted to point out that this freedom is not really anything to argue about since it is nothing more than an advertisement. My fault.

  9. #39
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    I wouldn't have anything against public nudity. There are enough people walking around that look disgusting and inappropriate even while clothed and they still get out. The burqa is really just an extreme version of our fear of nudity/temptation. People say that they shouldn't have to look at naked people running around but that's not really any different than many men think about an uncovered face.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  10. #40
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    I wouldn't have anything against public nudity. There are enough people walking around that look disgusting and inappropriate even while clothed and they still get out. The burqa is really just an extreme version of our fear of nudity/temptation. People say that they shouldn't have to look at naked people running around but that's not really any different than many men think about an uncovered face.
    How disappointing. I was beginning to think that I was the only one feeling this way.

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