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  1. #91
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    As to the first, I was referring to the women feeling unable to seek the aid of the law. Of course if the police are aware of it things can be done. If your husband is able to intimidate you into wearing something like that, don't you think he could intimidate you into not contacting the law? Especially in a kind of culture that often has the husband responsible for talking to the outside world?

    As to the second, it should have been pretty clear that I wasn't suggesting Burqua-wearers are criminals! Only that face covering is often used BY criminals to avoid getting caught...hence the stereotyped ski masks, bandanas, etc. I agree that banning Burquas is very unlikely to reduce crime (lol), it's more a matter of principle. And even still I'm undecided whether this is a good idea. I tend to agree that this will mean a lot of these women will be forced indoors!

    I guess the line always has to be drawn to balance freedom with what you think is best for the country. It's always debatable where the line should be.

    I'm sorry - I did not intend this as a sarcastic rebuttal of your comments but as a general frustration over what has happened.

    I have read numerous interviews with women from Islamic countries and many themselves choose to wear the various forms of covering saying that they give them a feeling of freedom and security.

    I am certain that there are equally others who are forced to wear these. I don't believe that a blanket ban is the answer because that discriminates against those who choose to wear them.

    Increasingly Western countries are experiencing large numbers of immigrants and refugees from other countries. No more so than Australia and the Boat People crisis we are currently experiencing in WA.

    However, I feel that more should be done about communicating the more serious cultural expectations in the new host countries, like equal opportunity, the rights of the individual, the sanctity of a life etc which may not be prevalent in their countries of origin.

    By choosing this way we force children and wives into potentially going against their own strongly held beliefs and that of their faiths. How can we spruik freedom of religion if we have laws like these. I would far rather educate newcomers on these other issues and prevent ritual female circumcision or any other form of child abuse than give this message.
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
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  2. #92
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Outsider View Post
    Oh I agree, fuck the sandnigger terrorists and their culture. They should stay out of our lands, just like we stay out of theirs.
    That's not at all what I meant, and "fuck the sandnigger terrorists" makes me sick to my stomach.

  3. #93
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    No. A country having such a well-formed identity and being unashamed to express it makes me happy. I realize this impinges on the ideas of some of the people in that country. Y'all can talk about that; that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the French being proud to be French, knowing what being French is, and not deviating from their Frenchness. Even if they're wrong, I love how fiercely they defend their national identity.
    I could be all parochial and be proud to be Australian but such a law, and its potential consequences, would make me ashamed rather than proud.
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
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  4. #94
    As Long As It Takes.... Redbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    No. This law, like many secular opinions of religion, dismisses entirely the concept that a person can arrive at religious belief through personal contemplation without succumbing to malicious indoctrination. This is like passing a law that women MUST work outside the home because anyone who chooses to be a stay-at-home mom must be under her husband's thumb.
    Exactly.

    It's always a question of "who gets to decide?".

  5. #95
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsatiableCuriosity View Post
    I could be all parochial and be proud to be Australian but such a law, and its potential consequences, would make me ashamed rather than proud.
    Right, well, we know where each other stands, then. No hard feelings, I hope?

  6. #96
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    Exactly.

    It's always a question of "who gets to decide?".


    You will be opressed
    You will not be oppressed
    it's a tough call


    i'm fishing
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  7. #97
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Right, well, we know where each other stands, then. No hard feelings, I hope?
    We do - no hard feelings at all - opinion is free in the West and we shall just agree to differ!
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
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  8. #98
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    (((InsatiableCuriosity)))

    ...............

    Axiom: You can't make all the people happy all the time.

    Women who want to wear the burqa will feel oppressed. Women who are offended at seeing other women wear the burqa will feel oppressed if it continues to be worn. There is no happy medium. Someone will have to change his/her viewpoint. As it is, the women who don't feel comfortable unless they're covered are going to have to figure out a solution. If it had gone differently, which it very well may have, the women who are offended by burqas would have to change their viewpoints. Whose view is better? It's pointless to debate. You could argue either one until the cows come home and make no progress on either side.

  9. #99
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    (((InsatiableCuriosity)))
    If it had gone differently, which it very well may have, the women who are offended by burqas would have to change their viewpoints.
    I'm sorry - this perspective to me makes no sense. If you put this in a Western perspective it could be equated with someone wearing a g-string and going topless and a new law implemented saying that no-one should be able to wear a full bathing suit because such modesty offends the g-string wearer!

    The person in the full bathing suit sees that as a matter of modesty! Would you like to be forced to wear a g-string and nothing else?
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
    author unknown

  10. #100
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    I would not like it at all. I would move.

    Maybe it's my upbringing -- I moved a lot in my life, and had to adapt to different cultures. I know people can adapt and change and I feel it's inevitable, so I don't really understand the fuss. I'm sure this seems insensitive and I don't mean to be hurtful in any way, so please excuse if you would.

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