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  1. #21
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    The company stands to lose very little if the employee were to die, but they make a substantial profit when they cash in that policy. This is not a game I want our society playing. It's literally gambling with peoples' lives (do the payouts exceed the premiums? that is the type of question these companies ask themselves). This activity provides no social utility, but it could lead to extremely harmful results if we let it continue.
    The people are going to die anyways.

    Churches, coffin makers, etc., make money from the dead as well.
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  2. #22
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentMind View Post
    The people are going to die anyways.

    Churches, coffin makers, etc., make money from the dead as well.
    Right, and I'm sure you can't come up with a single reason of how this is different from churches or coffin makers.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #23
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Right, and I'm sure you can't come up with a single reason of how this is different from churches or coffin makers.
    What do you mean though - Morally? The moral difference between the two?

    I don't see a difference.

    Wat yoo meen?
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  4. #24
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentMind View Post
    What do you mean though - Morally? The moral difference between the two?

    I don't see a difference.

    Wat yoo meen?
    No matter how or when you die, the church or funeral home or coffinmaker will get their money. If your company takes out life insurance on you, they only get their money if you die while working for them. If it's more profitable for you to die and for them to get their insurance than for you to continue working for them, obviously they're going to hope you die. If you grow old and retire, they don't get back on their policy, while the church/funeral home/coffinmaker/whatever still do, and therefore don't have a vested interest in you dying sooner or while you're still employed by a certain company.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  5. #25
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    No matter how or when you die, the church or funeral home or coffinmaker will get their money. If your company takes out life insurance on you, they only get their money if you die while working for them. If it's more profitable for you to die and for them to get their insurance than for you to continue working for them, obviously they're going to hope you die. If you grow old and retire, they don't get back on their policy, while the church/funeral home/coffinmaker/whatever still do, and therefore don't have a vested interest in you dying sooner or while you're still employed by a certain company.
    Investing and hoping aren't going to make you die sooner though - in fact, it won't kill you at all. I sincerely doubt that anyone has ever died from another person hoping they would. Murder by hope and investments does not exist. Now, if the companies are doing something dirty, like poisoning the free for employee chicken dinners and sugar packets, then that's another matter entirely and that would actually be sinister. To be honest, I doubt that anyone would be stupid enough to go to that sort of an extreme, it's too dangerous.

    Secondly, funeral homes, etc., have competition just like these companies. The people who run these places choose locations, market their products, etc., so that they can get one more dead people into the ground and a few more dollars in the bank. There is no gaurantee that these places will get any specific persons body, or that there will be a certain numerical and constant flow of bodies. Also, imagine if people started dying slower - what would a coffin maker do then? If anything, he would want people to die at a faster rate, it would be benificial to him if they did anyways.
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  6. #26
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I think one of the big points here is how just how much these policies are worth, and the fact that they mostly go to luxuries for the head honchos, while relatives of the dying worker get little more than jack shit.

    It's hard not to see anyone involved in this as a Scrooge.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  7. #27
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentMind View Post
    Investing and hoping aren't going to make you die sooner though - in fact, it won't kill you at all. I sincerely doubt that anyone has ever died from another person hoping they would. Murder by hope and investments does not exist. Now, if the companies are doing something dirty, like poisoning the free for employee chicken dinners and sugar packets, then that's another matter entirely and that would actually be sinister. To be honest, I doubt that anyone would be stupid enough to go to that sort of an extreme, it's too dangerous.

    Secondly, funeral homes, etc., have competition just like these companies. The people who run these places choose locations, market their products, etc., so that they can get one more dead people into the ground and a few more dollars in the bank. There is no gaurantee that these places will get any specific persons body, or that there will be a certain numerical and constant flow of bodies. Also, imagine if people started dying slower - what would a coffin maker do then? If anything, he would want people to die at a faster rate, it would be benificial to him if they did anyways.
    By "hope," I meant not keep up adequate safety standards. We know there are companies who do that.

    Of course the funeral homes and coffin makers are competitive, but they're more competitive than someone having a policy on your head that you don't know about. If a coffinmaker was down on business and he decided to kill people so he'd get more business, there's no guarantee that he would get any money from it. If a policy is taken out on you then the person with the policy has particular interest in a certain person dying. A coffin maker, or a funeral home or whatever would have to hope for a plague or of the like to guarantee an increase in their income.

    To put it shortly, a funeral home or coffin maker only really has interest in you when you're dead or if you want to buy early. Whether or not you in particular die is none of their concern.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  8. #28
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    By "hope," I meant not keep up adequate safety standards. We know there are companies who do that.
    Safety is not regulated by the companies themselves, that job is left to bureaucratic, gov. funded, companies like OSHA. To be honest, most accidents that happen 'on the job' are the fault of the employee themselves, employees who disregard the clearly outlined guidelines for workplace safety. OSHA is strict, very strict and a lack of safety is actually a big liability for any company. It's not in any companies best interest, or anyone invested in the company at higher ranks, to skimp on the safety protocols.

    Of course the funeral homes and coffin makers are competitive, but they're more competitive than someone having a policy on your head that you don't know about. If a coffinmaker was down on business and he decided to kill people so he'd get more business, there's no guarantee that he would get any money from it. If a policy is taken out on you then the person with the policy has particular interest in a certain person dying. A coffin maker, or a funeral home or whatever would have to hope for a plague or of the like to guarantee an increase in their income.

    To put it shortly, a funeral home or coffin maker only really has interest in you when you're dead or if you want to buy early. Whether or not you in particular die is none of their concern.
    It is their concern because they need more money.
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  9. #29
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I think one of the big points here is how just how much these policies are worth, and the fact that they mostly go to luxuries for the head honchos, while relatives of the dying worker get little more than jack shit.

    It's hard not to see anyone involved in this as a Scrooge.
    It's called life insurance. Go get some.
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  10. #30
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentMind View Post
    It's called life insurance. Go get some.
    Yes, it is life insurance, as is explicitly explained in the article. Life insurance isn't news. The way it's being used in this case is.

    Money that the company could use on something else, is being used to set up a policy (without notice), that makes it so when an employee dies, the company profits, and uses the profits only to excessively reward already well paid big whigs.

    This action has no social utility. But it does come at a cost.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

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