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  1. #11
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Why?

    The untimely death of a skilled employee represents a significant material loss to a company. Why should the company not be allowed to insure against this loss?
    I can understand taking out policies like these on high ranking employees (CEOs, VPs, etc). But that's not all that's happening. Companies are also taking out policies on low level employees that are easily replaceable, and these are the ones I was referring to.

    The company stands to lose very little if the employee were to die, but they make a substantial profit when they cash in that policy. This is not a game I want our society playing. It's literally gambling with peoples' lives (do the payouts exceed the premiums? that is the type of question these companies ask themselves). This activity provides no social utility, but it could lead to extremely harmful results if we let it continue.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #12
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Please refer to my previous post; there's not much sense debating something that is no longer ... the same issue.

    It is now against the law for an employer to take out a COLI without your consent.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  3. #13
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spin-1/2-nuclei View Post
    nonsense, that's how we roll in the USA. This is capitalism at it's core - or at least as our legislators intend it to be. Hence the lack of legislation against it.

    Your employer can "capitalize" on your death... it's totally allowed. You can't take a policy out on me and I can't take a policy out on you - unless of course one of us hires the other - then it's totally cool.
    You're confusing the economic system with the culture. The US does have a business culture that loves this sort of underhanded stuff, but that doesn't mean it has anything to do with capitalism. It doesn't. This would happen regardless of the economic system.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #14
    it's tea time! Walking Tourist's Avatar
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    Well, that's good.
    It would have, however, made a great premise for a murder mystery!

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Please refer to my previous post; there's not much sense debating something that is no longer ... the same issue.

    It is now against the law for an employer to take out a COLI without your consent.
    I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle and here is my spout. Every time I steam up, I give a shout. Just tip me over and pour me out.

  5. #15
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Why?

    The untimely death of a skilled employee represents a significant material loss to a company. Why should the company not be allowed to insure against this loss?
    Bad public policy. Allowing employers to mitigate financial losses from employee deaths incentivizes them to create riskier work environments, if those environments lead to greater profits.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Please refer to my previous post; there's not much sense debating something that is no longer ... the same issue.

    It is now against the law for an employer to take out a COLI without your consent.
    What about those companies that have already cashed in on the deaths of their employes by taking out policies without their consent? Should they get to keep the money and if not who gets to keep the premiums paid? It seems like lawsuits are still surfacing over these issues for a variety of reasons - 'Secret' life insurance triggers suits
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    watch where you're driving f$cktards! I have the right of way!!! :steam:

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    You're confusing the economic system with the culture. The US does have a business culture that loves this sort of underhanded stuff, but that doesn't mean it has anything to do with capitalism. It doesn't. This would happen regardless of the economic system.
    yeah I'm pretty sure I'm not.
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    watch where you're driving f$cktards! I have the right of way!!! :steam:

  8. #18
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spin-1/2-nuclei View Post
    What about those companies that have already cashed in on the deaths of their employes by taking out policies without their consent? Should they get to keep the money and if not who gets to keep the premiums paid? It seems like lawsuits are still surfacing over these issues for a variety of reasons - 'Secret' life insurance triggers suits
    I agree and no doubt lawsuits will continue to roll in too.

    I don't believe there's anything in the legislation that forces employers with policies in place (prior to 2006) to disclose either their existence or value.

    Personally I find it reprehensible; prior to the legislation, even the lowest paid employees often had policies on their heads - with the horrible irony that if they wanted their own life insurance they couldn't either afford to pay their own premiums or were ineligible to enrol for a variety of reasons, health conditions included.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  9. #19
    Senior Member eagleseven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spin-1/2-nuclei View Post
    yeah I'm pretty sure I'm not.
    Shall we go through all the monarchs, dictators, and state industries which treated their people like cattle?

    This is not a feature of capitalism, but rather a feature of human nature.

  10. #20
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    If a company wants to take out an insurance policy and an insurance company will sell it, I don't see a problem. Unless they are illegally accessing people's records (or poisoning them or something), there is nothing wrong here. I am certain my future employers will take out insurance policies on me after age 35 or so, and I'd encourage it.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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