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  1. #61
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    Sorry what was the impact on free expression in Denmark and Sweeden? One cartoon?

    What about all the laws in most western countries that already limit free speech and cause censorship every day?
    "One cartoon" which illustrates the impact of self-censorship due to the well-founded fear of an Islamist backlash.

    As for those other laws you mentioned:
    1.) I strongly oppose them as well.

    2.) They are designed around the explicit purpose of preventing the incitement of violence of perpetrators on victims of any description. The type of censorship we are talking about now concerns preventing violence by a very specific group of "victims" on the "perpetrators" for simply hurting the former's feelings. This stifles freedom of expression on an entirely different level, and produces a climate of fear into the societies in question that did not exist before.

  2. #62
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    "One cartoon" which illustrates the impact of self-censorship due to the well-founded fear of an Islamist backlash.

    As for those other laws you mentioned:
    1.) I strongly oppose them as well.

    2.) They are designed around the explicit purpose of preventing the incitement of violence of perpetrators on victims of any description. The type of censorship we are talking about now concerns preventing violence by a very specific group of "victims" on the "perpetrators" for simply hurting the former's feelings. This stifles freedom of expression on an entirely different level, and produces a climate of fear into the societies in question that did not exist before.
    I'm pretty sure that Muslim communities are hit much harder by official censorship and monitoring of their communications/pronunciation int he west, than white communities are.

    The media and poltiical circles dedicate themselves to attacking "Islamism" - read muslims - every single day in the press and their speeches and policy, so the idea that criticism of Islam is not permitted in the west, is a ludicrous one.

    There are some incidents when someone goes out of their way to be as offensive as possible to a set upon minority, and some of those people decide to use violence to stand up for themselves.

    Just like if I burn a Union Jack in the street, there will be a lynch mob at my house very soon. Probably much the same would happen if I burnt the stars and stripes in most US towns. Or for example I would never dare hang an Argentina flag out my window here in Britain.

    Yet when some individual Muslims use violence because they took offense at an insult to a symbol, suddenly this is part of some nefarious "Islamic" threat to our "western" values.

    Again, flagrant double standards, which are so ingrained, that people cannot even see them.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  3. #63
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    Just like if I burn a Union Jack in the street, there will be a lynch mob at my house very soon. Probably much the same would happen if I burnt the stars and stripes in most US towns.
    In most towns the worst that would happen is some gray-haired guy on his way home from the VFW lodge would stop and give you a piece of his mind. Otherwise, nothing much would happen.

    Heck, if you pick your town carefully (Berkely, Ithaca, Austin?), you could wind up having a picnic with your new-found friends from the neighborhood.

  4. #64
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    My name and surname means Michael The Archangel - The right hand of God and heir to the Throne of Heaven. DOESN'T MEAN I SHOULD TAKE IT LITERALLY.

  5. #65
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    In most towns the worst that would happen is some gray-haired guy on his way home from the VFW lodge would stop and give you a piece of his mind. Otherwise, nothing much would happen.

    Heck, if you pick your town carefully (Berkely, Ithaca, Austin?), you could wind up having a picnic with your new-found friends from the neighborhood.
    In England you would get beaten up.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  6. #66
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    In England you would get beaten up.
    Then you should only speak for England, since that seems to be all that you know.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #67
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Then you should only speak for England, since that seems to be all that you know.
    So there are no parts of the US where I would get beaten up for burning the stars and stripes?
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  8. #68
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    So there are no parts of the US where I would get beaten up for burning the stars and stripes?
    Maybe, I can't imagine where. Maybe if you burst into a VFW meeting, burnt the flag, and threw it in their faces? The US is pretty tolerant of such things, even if people don't like it.

    Like I said, speak for England. Don't pretend to know the US because you obviously have no clue what you're talking about.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #69
    Senior Member eagleseven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    Just like if I burn a Union Jack in the street, there will be a lynch mob at my house very soon. Probably much the same would happen if I burnt the stars and stripes in most US towns. Or for example I would never dare hang an Argentina flag out my window here in Britain.
    As Oberon has stated, nothing would happen here if you burned the American flag, and it happens all the time. Hell, we even let neo-nazis fly their swastikas.

    In the border states, you find Mexican immigrants flying the Mexican flag all over, nevermind the fact that we fought a war with Mexico over that land.

    In my hometown, we've had the KKK and the Black Panthers marching simultaneously.

    P.S. VFW = Veterans of Foreign Wars



  10. #70
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Err, what do Brits have against Argentina?

    Also, the only proper way to dispose of an American flag is to burn it honorably, and they burn our flags all the time so I think most people have gotten immune to it by now. If you really want to offend us use it as a rug.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

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