User Tag List

First 34567 Last

Results 41 to 50 of 92

  1. #41
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    1,292

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eagleseven View Post
    The FBI is actively monitoring so-called Christian extremist groups in the US, as well as so-called Muslim extremist groups.

    If, as you say, the West is racist for fearing and criticizing certain Muslim practices, then the US Government must also be racist for fearing and criticizing certain Christian practices.

    Do you understand?
    But like I said, he didn't argue that. He wasn't even mainly talking about governments or monitoring groups. So like I said you missed the point. Or maybe you didn't even read the article.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  2. #42
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    3,705

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    Ah "false consciousness". you wouldn't just be throwing in a term you heard in order to sound knowledgeable about marxism, right?
    I Just figured I would use a synonym for ideology that fits the Marxist theme better.

    Remember, I'm an IR/Comparative nerd with a classical liberal agenda who leans heavily toward a Constructivist view of human society; I'm predisposed to view Islamism through an international and "abstract" lens as an anti-liberal and effectively "anti-American" movement (which is also why many leftists have at least a tolerance for Islamism-its often viewed as part of the international struggle against Capitalist imperialism) which threatens the advancement of principles I cherish on an international level.

    On a localized level, the threat of jihadist terrorism, while exaggerated, is very real (especially in Europe), and the associated impact on cherished local mores (such as free expression in Sweden and Denmark) is also evident. If something is non-ethnically "racist" on a practical rather than abstract level, at what point do you think increased scrutiny on certain groups (within the parameters covered in the previous post) stops being reasonable and instead becomes "racist"?
    Last edited by lowtech redneck; 07-06-2010 at 08:22 PM. Reason: excess word

  3. #43
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    IxFx
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    859

    Default

    I will talk out loud about muslim extremists, but not regular muslims. I will talk out loud about christian extremists, but not regular christians. I will joke about race, religion, politics, disasters, illnesses, and war. I am well aware of skin color and culture, and I am not afraid to make jokes about any of it. I do not hate or dislike anyone because they are not white and non-religious like me.

    Ps. Just because the dictionary tells us that there is one resolute definition of the terms Race, Racism, Racist, it does not necessarily mean that different people from various places across the world does not have different opinions on what it really means. I have mine, but I am reluctant to share it. I tend not to look at things in terms of black and white, because there's an agonizing grey in the midst of it.

  4. #44
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    5,537

    Default

    Interesting article. I'm not a fan of a couple statements in it.

    I really don't care for this author's "new" racism idea. It muddles the waters and makes it that much easier for the PC police to slap your wrists. For instance, "I'm not racist but..." could just as much be stating an opinion that they know is not going to be popular and are defending themselves against PC backlash before it starts.

    Thing I've noticed with racists is they have no compunction about spraying this perfume of words before they state their opinions. They will state their opinion as if it's natural to think the way they do because for them it is.

    I also have an issue with including cultural ways, religions and creeds to the definition of racism. They are each very different things. So you can't criticize a culture without being called racist? I call bullshit on that.
    ~luck favors the ready~


    Shameless Self-Promotion:MDP2525's Den and the Start of Motorcycle Maintenance

  5. #45
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sp/sx
    Posts
    5,648

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eagleseven View Post
    The FBI is actively monitoring so-called Christian extremist groups in the US, as well as so-called Muslim extremist groups.

    If, as you say, the West is racist for fearing and criticizing certain Muslim practices, then the US Government must also be racist for fearing and criticizing certain Christian practices.

    Do you understand?
    Wrong. The FBI is monitoring certain specific groups of individuals, muslims and christians, they have reason to suspect are preparing for violent illegal activities. This is not racism and is not at all what the article refered to.

    Now if you don´t want any WASP christians living in your street or change lines in the supermarket because you don´t want to stand behind a WASP christian, if WASP christians have to undergo stricter controls at airports than other passengers, if lynch mobs chased christians after a terrorist attack by unabomber style militias, then, yes, that would be "racism" in the proposed meaning of the term.
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
    A herring's blog
    Johari / Nohari

  6. #46
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,545

    Thumbs down The Mantra of Racism

    Since 1917 the Marxist Left has been a uniform failure across the world, from the Soviet Union, to Communist China, to Cambodia, and North Korea and beyond.

    The Left have been a failure with one exception - South Africa.

    Yes, the Left were successful in South Africa and so they have become fixated on their one success.

    And so to any problem that arises the Left cry, "Racism".

    After all, what can they say? This is all they have left.

    All the Left have left is the mantra of racism.

  7. #47
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    1,292

    Default

    Remember, I'm an IR/Comparative nerd with a classical liberal agenda who leans heavily toward a Constructivist view of human society; I'm predisposed to view Islamism through an international and "abstract" lens as an anti-liberal and effectively "anti-American" movement (which is also why many leftists have at least a tolerance for Islamism-its often viewed as part of the international struggle against Capitalist imperialism) which threatens the advancement of principles I cherish on an international level.

    On a localized level, the threat of jihadist terrorism, while exaggerated, is very real (especially in Europe), and the associated impact on cherished local mores (such as free expression in Sweden and Denmark) is also evident. If something is non-ethnically "racist" on a practical rather than abstract level, at what point do you think increased scrutiny on certain groups (within the parameters covered in the previous post) stops being reasonable and instead becomes "racist"?
    Sorry what was the impact on free expression in Denmark and Sweeden? One cartoon?

    What about all the laws in most western countries that already limit free speech and cause censorship every day?

    This is a clear example of the racist discourse: the idea that "Islamism is a threat to free speech in the west". This idea is so ridiculous that it can only be explained by the need to scapegoat Muslims for the problems of the west, which is racist.

    Though I am not accusing you personally of racism. But...how can this be!?

    Because it is not a question of "in which cases is a specific individual being racist". Racism is rooted in the ways our societies function, it is not a personal choice. Most people ar enot racist on a personal level but accept certain racist assumptions that are fundamental to making their society work. Thus the question of "is Joe Six-Pack a racist" becomes irrelevant, rather it becomes a question that as people are forced into their own struggles against the system (i.e. forced to occupy foreclosed houses in your country, for example), they can begin to see through all the assumptions of their society as a whole.

    In the meantime however it is necessarry to challenge every specific wave of hysteria against Muslims.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  8. #48
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,545

    Thumbs down The Enemy of my Enemy is my Friend.

    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    In the meantime however it is necessarry to challenge every specific wave of hysteria against Muslims.
    I am fascinated by the alliance between the Marxist Left and the Jihadi.

    It reminds me of the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact, the Nazi-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact of 1939.

    For the Marxist Left are atheist while the Jihadi are theists.

    And should they win, they will turn on one another just as the Soviets and the Nazis tore each other to pieces.

    The Marxist Left and the Jihadi are natural enemies, only united by their war on liberal democracy, just like the Soviets and the Nazis.

    Both the Marxist Left and the Jihadi work on the principle - the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

  9. #49
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    1,292

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I am fascinated by the alliance between the Marxist Left and the Jihadi.

    It reminds me of the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact, the Nazi-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact of 1939.

    For the Marxist Left are atheist while the Jihadi are theists.

    And should they win, they will turn on one another just as the Soviets and the Nazis tore each other to pieces.

    The Marxist Left and the Jihadi are natural enemies, only united by their war on liberal democracy.

    Both the Marxist Left and the Jihadi work on the principle - the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
    Ahh I see what you did there. I said "Muslims" and you changed it with "Jihadi". Very clever!

    btw you really should read that Trotsky link I keep posting to you - he answers pretty much everything you ever said, 80 years before you said it.

    Leon Trotsky: Their Morals and Ours (1938)

    (emphasis mine)

    A moralizing Philistine’s favorite method is the lumping of reaction’s conduct with that of revolution. He achieves success in this device through recourse to formal analogies. To him czarism and Bolshevism are twins. Twins are likewise discovered in fascism and communism. An inventory is compiled of the common features in Catholicism – or more specifically, Jesuitism – and Bolshevism. Hitler and Mussolini, utilizing from their side exactly the same method, disclose that liberalism, democracy, and Bolshevism represent merely different manifestations of one and the same evil. The conception that Stalinism and Trotskyism are “essentially” one and the same now enjoys the joint approval of liberals, democrats, devout Catholics, idealists, pragmatists, and anarchists. If the Stalinists are unable to adhere to this “People’s Front”, then it is only because they are accidentally occupied with the extermination of Trotskyists.

    The fundamental feature of these approchements and similitudes lies in their completely ignoring the material foundation of the various currents, that is, their class nature and by that token their objective historical role. Instead they evaluate and classify different currents according to some external and secondary manifestation, most often according to their relation to one or another abstract principle which for the given classifier has a special professional value. Thus to the Roman pope Freemasons and Darwinists, Marxists and anarchists are twins because all of them sacrilegiously deny the immaculate conception. To Hitler, liberalism and Marxism are twins because they ignore “blood and honor”. To a democrat, fascism and Bolshevism are twins because they do not bow before universal suffrage. And so forth.

    Undoubtedly the currents grouped above have certain common features. But the gist of the matter lies in the fact that the evolution of mankind exhausts itself neither by universal suffrage, not by “blood and honor,” nor by the dogma of the immaculate con ception. The historical process signifies primarily the class struggle; moreover, different classes in the name of different aims may in certain instances utilize similar means. Essentially it cannot be otherwise. Armies in combat are always more or less symmetrical; were there nothing in common in their methods of struggle they could not inflict blows upon each other.

    If an ignorant peasant or shopkeeper, understanding neither the origin nor the sense of the struggle between the proletariat and the bourgeoisie, discovers himself between the two fires, he will consider both belligerent camps with equal hatred. And who are all these democratic moralists? Ideologists of intermediary layers who have fallen, or are in fear of falling between the two fires. The chief traits of the prophets of this type are alienism to great historical movements, a hardened conservative mentality, smug narrowness, and a most primitive political cowardice. More than anything moralists wish that history should leave them in peace with their petty books, little magazines, subscribers, common sense, and moral copy books. But history does not leave them in peace. It cuffs them now from the left, now from the right. Clearly – revolution and reaction, Czarism and Bolshevism, communism and fascism, Stalinism and Trotskyism – are all twins. Whoever doubts this may feel the symmetrical skull bumps upon both the right and left sides of these very moralists.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  10. #50
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,545

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    Ahh I see what you did there. I said "Muslims" and you changed it with "Jihadi". Very clever!
    G'day Ice-Pick,

    I had the impression that Jihadi were Muslims.

    And although Dhimmi believe their Bible is inspired by God, all Muslims believe the Koran is the literal, spoken word of God that can't be altered by man.

    And that Allah commands Muslims to jihad and martyrdom to establish His unchangeable Law, called Sharia, to all peoples, Dhimmi and Infidels alike.

    And just as Jihadi are Muslims, so Islam is totalitarian, just like Marxism.

Similar Threads

  1. [INFJ] The Many Faces of INFJ
    By Arclight in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 08-02-2013, 06:44 PM
  2. 100 Year Event: Transit of Venus Across the Face of the Sun
    By MacGuffin in forum Science, Technology, and Future Tech
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-03-2012, 01:49 AM
  3. [ENFJ] Are ENFJs infamous for dropping off the face of the planet?
    By Glycerine in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 12-18-2009, 07:17 PM
  4. [NT] Face of the Hard
    By entropie in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-02-2008, 03:08 AM
  5. The True Face of "Beauty"
    By Totenkindly in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: 12-18-2007, 04:11 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO