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  1. #11
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    A tale of two British Boxers.

    Carl Froch and Amir Khan.

    Both have Huge fan bases and both are arrogant fucks. This arrogance draws the ire of many. So both also have many anti-fans.

    Froch is White British
    Khan Is Pakistani British

    If you hate Froch, no one says a thing.
    If you hate Khan, You are Anti Muslim and racist.

    Now yes.. this is the changing face of racism in the UK.. The victim is white and has an opinion.

  2. #12
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    That is what I did. My question was rhetorical.

    If race is socially constructed, can I say denying rights to women and gays is now racism, too? What about disliking Christian fundamentalists? Also racism?

    No.

    That isn't to say that some people aren't racist towards people from typically Islamic countries...but disagreeing with a religion is NOT racism.
    What does "disagreeing with a religion" mean? I am not Muslim. I don't believe in the Koran. Niether does the author of the article. So I guess we "disagree with Islam". So, we are calling ourselves racist?

    Wrong, try again.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  3. #13
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    That is what I did. My question was rhetorical.

    If race is socially constructed, can I say denying rights to women and gays is now racism, too? What about disliking Christian fundamentalists? Also racism?

    No.

    That isn't to say that some people aren't racist towards people from typically Islamic countries...but disagreeing with a religion is NOT racism.
    I think it is more than social construction. Many substitute the word Moslem for those people who live in Arab countries, largely tending to incorrectly label all Arabic people as Muslims.

    What many either willingly or unconsciously overlook is that Islam as a religion has adherents in Eastern Europe – the modern holocaust that was Jugoslavia where the West took too long to intervene in the genocide of Slavic Muslims.

    Indonesia, a population of 240,271,522 is majority Islamic. Many African nations have high proportion of Islamic adherents in their non-Arab, Afro communities. And East Asia has increasing proportions of those of Islamic faith. This doesn't even cover the Westerners who are Muslims in USA, Europe, Australia & New Zealand!

    Let's be honest here - most people inciting hatred of Muslims are really looking at the Arab communities!
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
    author unknown

  4. #14
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsatiableCuriosity View Post
    Let's be honest here - most people inciting hatred of Muslims are really looking at the Arab communities!
    Eh, not necessarily. You're forgetting black Muslims.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  5. #15
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Eh, not necessarily. You're forgetting black Muslims.
    Sorry - I agree that people generally lump those and Indo Muslims with the Arab Muslims.

    Way too much unthinking generalisation in racism for me. It is amazing how a person's idea changes when they are open to association with one good person from a race or religion they had previously despised by generalisation.
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
    author unknown

  6. #16
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    One thing to keep in mind is until you're on the receiving end of racism or any form of discrimination yourself, you will never ever have any idea what it's like. You might think you do, but you don't.

    However, I don't think hypersensitivity to racism like what's happening now is the answer either. Right now we're just pointing fingers and calling each other racists. A lot of people seem to think that we can end racism by 'stop being racist'. The root of the problem is deeper and way more complicated than that. People fear the unknown. It's our instinct to be wary of things we don't know. Are they really wrong to be afraid of things they don't understand?

    No, the real answer is exposure. People need to mix. We need to learn about foreign cultures. We need to read their books, watch their movies, listen to their music, speak their languages. We need to get to know people from different cultures. We need to stop being people of specific races and regions and start being people of the world.

    I have a lot of hope for the younger generations

  7. #17
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    What does "disagreeing with a religion" mean? I am not Muslim. I don't believe in the Koran. Niether does the author of the article. So I guess we "disagree with Islam". So, we are calling ourselves racist?

    Wrong, try again.
    In your article, complaining about honour killings was called racist, despite no mention of race.
    Quote Originally Posted by InsatiableCuriosity View Post
    Let's be honest here - most people inciting hatred of Muslims are really looking at the Arab communities!
    I agree with you, actually, that is sort of what I was saying. That we should take care to separate true racism from any disagreement with religion or politics - both ways of thinking exist, definitely. Hatred of Muslims or Arabs isn't at all the same thing as criticizing religious practices.

    And still, I have heard people called racist for any criticism of Muslim practices, or fearing that we should allow Sharia law here in place of our laws. Etc.

    My main disagreement is simply one of definition. Calling anti-Muslims racist is kinda like calling your strict high-school teacher a Nazi. It's not racism by definition, despite the common overlap.
    -end of thread-

  8. #18
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    One thing to keep in mind is until you're on the receiving end of racism or any form of discrimination yourself, you will never ever have any idea what it's like. You might think you do, but you don't.

    However, I don't think hypersensitivity to racism like what's happening now is the answer either. Right now we're just pointing fingers and calling each other racists. A lot of people seem to think that we can end racism by 'stop being racist'. The root of the problem is deeper and way more complicated than that. People fear the unknown. It's our instinct to be wary of things we don't know. Are they really wrong to be afraid of things they don't understand?

    No, the real answer is exposure. People need to mix. We need to learn about foreign cultures. We need to read their books, watch their movies, listen to their music, speak their languages. We need to get to know people from different cultures. We need to stop being people of specific races and regions and start being people of the world.

    I have a lot of hope for the younger generations
    I couldn't agree more!!! We have to stop being hypersensitive and politically correct to fix this as well. I imagine that in every other country receiving refugees, there are cultural value clashes.

    There needs to be better education on such issues as women's rights, the sanctity of life, ages at which a child may enter into sexual congress, acceptable social behaviour and more.

    The refugees come to our countries because of the freedom our countries represent by comparison to the places they leave, and they are welcome BUT that freedom has been hard won by our forefathers and mothers including the peace movement, bills of rights, womens lib etc.

    We need to better acquaint our refugees with these values if they wish to stay!
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
    author unknown

  9. #19
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsatiableCuriosity View Post
    Sorry - I agree that people generally lump those and Indo Muslims with the Arab Muslims.

    Way too much unthinking generalisation in racism for me. It is amazing how a person's idea changes when they are open to association with one good person from a race or religion they had previously despised by generalisation.
    It's not so much just Arabs (though they're a big target) but "people from a vaguely defined part of the world that includes parts of the Indian subcontinent, Asia Minor, and Africa," because Muslims from Europe and Indonesia do not usually blip on the radar, for some reason.

    Pretty much we need a word that rolls off the tongue for anti-Muslims, though, we can't just rehash "racist". Too bad the Jews already took antisemite. Darn those Jews! :steam:
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  10. #20
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    I think "bigot" works fine, if one doesn't mind it cutting several ways.

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