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  1. #11
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    But that's the point, other countries don't give a crap!!

  2. #12

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    Good movie!

    Yeah, it isn't like Waitangi Day, Queens Bithday and Labour Day. People all around the world celebrate them. It is Maritime Day here on the 19th. It is important to celebrate and think about your history.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Its actually a little disappointing to hear about your national holiday (and a Saint's day if you worry about that kind of thing) reduced to alcohol and food colouring.
    All holidays need a hook to sell. That is how that is.

  4. #14
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Oh come on, we observe Bastille Day so the least France could do is reciprocate!
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    The USA.

    Its current world hegemon.
    To insist that a country should celebrate a holiday because of it's power makes no sense. Holidays are a celebration of a country's cultural identity as a people. To even suggest they should is an insult to their spirit and pride as a culture. It is especially ironic to suggest that people should celebrate the fourth of July.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    To insist that a country should celebrate a holiday because of it's power makes no sense. Holidays are a celebration of a country's cultural identity as a people. To even suggest they should is an insult to their spirit and pride as a culture. It is especially ironic to suggest that people should celebrate the fourth of July.
    Why is it especially ironic? Who is insisting? Why so serious?

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Why is it especially ironic? Who is insisting? Why so serious?
    I think it is ironic because the Fourth of July is a celebration of the independence of the USA from Great Britain. A celebration of their forming a culture separate from them.

    You seem to be insisting that because it is a power we should.

    Because culture is an important thing and I don't like the idea that I should adopt other practices simply due to the power of another country.

    It sounds like you might have been joking. If so, what are your real feelings on it then?

  8. #18
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Oh come on, we observe Bastille Day so the least France could do is reciprocate!
    We do? Huh. The United States is probably not a good example in the international context, though; a lot of people of French descent became American in the past, but I don't think many Americans became French, etc. (unless you count the immigrants that subsequently returned to their country of origin, which historically was a substantial number).

  9. #19
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    We do? Huh. The United States is probably not a good example in the international context, though; a lot of people of French descent became American in the past, but I don't think many Americans became French, etc. (unless you count the immigrants that subsequently returned to their country of origin, which historically was a substantial number).
    Well, then again it could be all about using up extra 4th-of-July fireworks. It's only 10 days later, which is easier than waiting a whole half a year for New Year's.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    I think it is ironic because the Fourth of July is a celebration of the independence of the USA from Great Britain. A celebration of their forming a culture separate from them.

    You seem to be insisting that because it is a power we should.

    Because culture is an important thing and I don't like the idea that I should adopt other practices simply due to the power of another country.

    It sounds like you might have been joking. If so, what are your real feelings on it then?
    I insist on very little to be honest, I was only saying that its important because the US is a world hegemon, hence it exports a lot of its culture and its recogniseable and has a profile others do not, its not unreasonable or surprising to find that other people will celebrate or understand why its a day of celebration for Americans at least.

    In contrast I'd understand no one knowing about or marking the occasion of feast days from the Roman Catholic or Hindu Calendar.

    I think its nice when someone wishes someone else a happy day, or even when people mark days or their heritage, because, like it or not and there are plenty of people who do not like it, we all live and share the world and world history and its transmission to future generations is a pretty significant thing.

    There are issues with bigotry and "ownership" of world history, less so in this instance, although perhaps an Orange Williamite Protestant wishing everyone a happy 12th of July would have a different resonance to festivals like Bastille day or Indepedence Day. Each of those days are supposed to be universalising, in the spirit of enlightenment and international/universal fraternity, some would say that the commemorations surrounding the Williamite Wars or Scots Protestant plantation of Ireland, both significant to the Orange Order, arent the same and cant be.

    Although even in this instance, while I dont attend parades, finding them bizarre and militaristic for the most part (although I can honestly say the same for the Easter Rising commemorations in Dublin, when I had the unfortunate experience of crossing the road into the middle of a troop of military costumed marchers with various banners I didnt recognise, some of them communist), I have, even though I identify myself as Irish (although closer to being disporia Irish because partition in Ireland has worked) and a Roman Catholic, visited Derry, Augrim, Eniskillen and the Boyne and researched the history. Much as I would, and did, research the history of Culloden Moore and visited it.

    I know some people arent history afficados like me and I dont expect them to share my interests, I certainly dont think anyone should feel compelled to mark any occasion, particularly if it has negative associations for them.

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