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  1. #71
    Senior Member ThinkingAboutIt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Would you vote for a President who is an avowed, public atheist like the Prime Minister of Australia (Oz), Julia Gillard just to your left?
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Would you vote for a President who is an avowed, public atheist and a woman, just like Julia Gillard?

    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And would you vote for a President who is an avowed, public atheist, a women and who is living in sin with her partner, just like Julia Gillard, Prime Minister of Australia?
    No.
    Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

  2. #72
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Would you vote for a President who is an avowed, public atheist like the Prime Minister of Australia (Oz), Julia Gillard just to your left?

    Would you vote for a President who is an avowed, public atheist and a woman, just like Julia Gillard?

    And would you vote for a President who is an avowed, public atheist, a women and who is living in sin with her partner, just like Julia Gillard, Prime Minister of Australia?
    You make no mention of her credentials and actual abilities. Yet you ask if I would vote for such a person. Why?

  3. #73
    Senior Member Pixelholic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    You make no mention of her credentials and actual abilities. Yet you ask if I would vote for such a person. Why?
    ASsume two politicians are running and have the exact same credentials and political views. One is atheist, one is theist (religion of your choice)

    Which one do you vote for?
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.” -Nietzsche

  4. #74
    Senior Member ThinkingAboutIt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pixelholic View Post
    ASsume two politicians are running and have the exact same credentials and political views. One is atheist, one is theist (religion of your choice)

    Which one do you vote for?
    Why would you bring religion into it? Atheism is not a religion, it is a position. Religion requires a belief in God, gods, deities, etc.
    Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

  5. #75
    Senior Member Pixelholic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThinkingAboutIt View Post
    Why would you bring religion into it? Atheism is not a religion, it is a position. Religion requires a belief in God, gods, deities, etc.
    I personally would not. But there are a lot of people that do. There was a poll in the States a while back that showed that people's tolerance of other religions has gone up, but tolerance of atheism had gone down. There's another one where people were asked if they would vote for a politician if he was female, or gay, or black, or atheist, (there were a couple other options too I think) and the atheist got the lowest percentage by far.

    (I don't have the sources of the polls on hand, I think they may have been gallup but I'm not a hundred percent)

    So to a lot of people, religion (or lack therof) is an important consideration, whether rightly or wrongly.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.” -Nietzsche

  6. #76
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pixelholic View Post
    The power structures in place have a vested interest in keeping the status quo.
    Is it a "sinister conspiracy," or is it just human nature? But beyond that, you are saying it's not the fault of the people who want "progress"--yet what if those people who originally wanted progress change their minds along the way? Maybe it would explain the high rate of such things as they happen.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  7. #77
    Senior Member Pixelholic's Avatar
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    Not really sinister conspiracy. You just have large powerful groups/industries that benefit from the way things are. To use a good example, the South was against abolition because they had a huge economic investment into chattel slavery, not to mention you had huge ideological systems in place to reinforce slavery.

    Religion is another one, an atheist is portrayed as an outsider or a pariah of sorts. There is something inherently wrong with them or what not. As an atheist I get this sort of thing all the time, because theists use their religion as a major definition of their sense of self, they use one's lack of religion to define that person unfairly, since no atheist I know actually defines themselves on their atheism (that would be like defining one's personality on the fact that you don't wear plaid shirts or something.)

    You end up fighting against an ideology that says you're a blasphemer or whatever. Tough stuff to fight against especially in a highly religious nation.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.” -Nietzsche

  8. #78
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pixelholic View Post
    ASsume two politicians are running and have the exact same credentials and political views. One is atheist, one is theist (religion of your choice)

    Which one do you vote for?
    Neither. I'd think they're both idiots for running against each other, versus, working with each other, against their opposing parties.

  9. #79
    Senior Member Pixelholic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Neither. I'd think they're both idiots for running against each other, versus, working with each other, against their opposing parties.
    Nice answer.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.” -Nietzsche

  10. #80
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    You make no mention of her credentials and actual abilities. Yet you ask if I would vote for such a person. Why?
    Well, it's hands across the Pacific to illustrate cultural differences.

    The biggest danger, as I see it, is to ignore cultural differences and think we are all the same.

    And if you belong to the economy that has been the largest in the world for more than a century and remains the largest today, it is very easy to elide the cultural differences of your allies.

    And it is part of a larger problem of devaluing history whereas it is history that determines who we are.

    For instance, if you had understood the history of Vietnam would you have lied about the Gulf of Tonkin Incident and go on to kill three million Vietnamese, 1.1 million combatants and 2 million civilians?

    And if you had understood the history of Iraq would you have lied about weapons of mass destruction and go on to kill upwards of 1 million Iraqi?

    And if you had understood the history of Afghanistan would you have invaded rather than conducting a police action?

    And if you had understood the history of Pakistan would you have bombed them creating what is now a civil war in the cities of Pakistan.

    I could go on and ask you about West Papua, Indonesia, Cambodia and other countries but what is the point for you don't even understand your own history never mind anyone else's and you don't care.

    But you've got to start somewhere and why not start with an ally that speaks the same language, has a similar polity, and comes off the same British tree?

    It's a no brainer.

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