User Tag List

First 12345 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 130

  1. #21
    Ginkgo
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I don't think the "how's" matters to people who operate on "should's."

    It's not about what makes sense logically or what is implementable, it's about what someone believes is "right and decent."
    True. Reminds me of a song...

    Don't worry Jen, my birth certificate and social paper work says I was born in Texas. Much worse. (No, not kidding)
    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLUX0y4EptA"]I Can, but Should I?[/YOUTUBE]


    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Are they going to start blocking certain internet sites like China does? That seems to be the only way they'll be able to outlaw "all pornography".
    Only after they "succeed from the Union".

  2. #22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I don't think the "how's" matters to people who operate on "should's."

    It's not about what makes sense logically or what is implementable, it's about what someone believes is "right and decent."
    I'm totally intrigued by this because its the exact argument I would make against certain attempts to have the state sanction and enforce cultural norms such as public approval for homosexuality.

    I'm betting that somehow its different and this is just more evidence that I'm a hateful bigot though

  3. #23
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    451 sp/sx
    Socionics
    INFp Ni
    Posts
    1,373

    Default

    Any politician who would use his power to repress personal freedom should stand trial in the same courts he swore to uphold.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic_Tater
    Only after they "succeed from the Union".
    Essentially that's what the Texas GOP is trying to do; the laws they're vying for are a flagrant violation of the U.S. constitution, and if they were to actually pass them, it would amount to a rejection of our country's basic principles. In practice, Washington D.C. would probably let Texas off the hook if they refused to repeal the laws--the alternative would be a great deal of hassle, and would probably end in a true secession--but in effect, it would be no different than letting a criminal run wild because they're too much trouble to deal with.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  4. #24
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    1,158

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Now I would suggest that perhaps if someone is transexual and they have a successful sex change then they wouldnt necessarily wish to live a "secret life of Jane/Dave" but who knows, I do believe people have a right to privacy but I equally think that people can and should expect that identity isnt a totally free deal, if you adopt a particular identity or possess it by accident of birth there are expectations you should have.
    Expectations like what?

    I'd go further and suggest that there are things you cant expect too, no one has a right to expect the state to intervene to ensure that they feel respected by strangers for instance. If we're going to discuss bad laws we could start there.
    Uh.... What about all those times when the government has dealt a hand to racism?
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  5. #25
    Sniffles
    Guest

    Default

    You people act as if this is the first time sodomy laws were proposed in America.
    Sodomy laws in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  6. #26
    Cat Wench ReadingRainbows's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx/sp
    Socionics
    IEI Ni
    Posts
    1,899

    Default

    I wonder if he's ever been to montrose :/
    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    St. Stephen took rocks and St. Sebastian took arrows. You only have to take some jerks on an internet forum. Nut up.

  7. #27
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    6,707

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    You people act as if this is the first time sodomy laws were proposed in America.
    Sodomy laws in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    You know, even back then, it was silly, because they have even less means to enforce it then than they do now!
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  8. #28
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Jennifer you get really angry when this topic comes up and pretty much just attack me an in thinly veiled ways dismiss me as a bigot. I really dont appreciate it.
    Remember when you first came here and complimented me in private because of my fairness and civility? If my opinion of you has shifted, I'm surprised you are not curious as to understand why.

    I get angry whenever someone cloaks their gut feelings as rational arguments and refuses to engage the discussion at hand. That's pretty much the long and short of it. If I feel that someone has proven themselves not to have intellectual integrity, then I have a lot of trouble dealing with them.

    Some times there arent, as you so eloquently and respectfully put it (nice to see you being the change you want to see in the world there)
    Nice jab.

    some "right wing schmuck"
    Are you a right-wing shmuck?
    Do you know the right-wing schmuck I've read about and am specifically referring to?
    Do you have any idea what specifically goes on in a foreign country you're not part of, enough to try to intervene?
    If I called this particular man a "right-wing schmuck," I did not mean it as a general pejorative -- I meant that this man in particular (and not necessarily anymore else) is a "right-wing schmuck."

    preying on peoples fears, that's the equivalent of suggesting that the agitation for desegregation in the US, womens sufferage or pensions where all the work of "evil, godless commies" in their day. Sometimes people just decide they've had enough of a particular agenda.
    Again, there are right-wing people who are my friends, and right-wing people I respect.
    Some of them are on this forum, and they know I respect them.
    If anyone is reading too far into my words, it's you.

    I'm unsure what you mean about values driven conclusions, I am sure that this isnt a positive at least, my conclusions about being transgendered or transexual are a consequence of my consideration that people are male, female or transgendered, simple as.

    Its a little like the marriage deal. Its a relationship between a man and woman. Not a man and a man or a woman and a woman or a man and his dog or a woman and her horse.
    Exactly. So please do not make it sound as if your conclusions are derived from a rational basis. They are not. They are just your own gut instincts on the matter, and you habitually resist any rational analysis of them. That's fine... but only if you 'fess up to it and stop pretending any of it makes sense or is thought through first; it's not. From what I can tell, you just have the gut reactions, then seek to justify them as rational.

    Now I would suggest that perhaps if someone is transexual and they have a successful sex change then they wouldnt necessarily wish to live a "secret life of Jane/Dave" but who knows, I do believe people have a right to privacy but I equally think that people can and should expect that identity isnt a totally free deal, if you adopt a particular identity or possess it by accident of birth there are expectations you should have.
    Which is fascinating to me, how you create your own rules here. What's interesting is how you tend to create your own rules for everyone else. It shouldn't matter to you whatsoever that any of these people have to deal with this issue. It doesn't impact you whatsoever. Yet you would impose a rule like this on people, without even being able to express modicum of understanding of the experience and reasons why said people might want to approach things differently than you!

    So tell me Lark: Why should transsexuals expect to be labeled in irrelevant ways (since if they are physically and socially and legally the gender they've transitioned to -- to the point they can marry people of the opposite sex of their new gender, even in conservative states -- the only reason to retain the old gender marker is as a mere book-keeping issue) that serve no purpose except to permit discrimination against them and/or make their private business public, and/or place them under some level of physical risk depending on locale, simply because of an unfortunate matter of birth that YOU happened to not be subject to?

    What do you get out of that?
    Why is that important in the least to you?
    To put another entire group at a terrible inconvenience and possible worse, so that you can feel.... what, exactly?
    What's the rationale here?

    (aside from all the gay baggage you're carrying -- you already have stated numerous times you resent whatever Politically Correct forces in your country have tried to force you to "accept" about gays -- but I'm still not sure what that has to do with the situation in the United States)

    I'd go further and suggest that there are things you cant expect too, no one has a right to expect the state to intervene to ensure that they feel respected by strangers for instance. If we're going to discuss bad laws we could start there.
    Did I ever say I expected that?

    As far as what I expect: I expect to be treated fairly under the law and not discriminated against for a job and everything else.

    That's what's ironic here -- for all intents and practical purposes, I am the person I claim to be, and that's how I'm perceived -- yet some people would place restrictions and impositions on me and treat me in a completely different fashion because of something for all intents and practical purposes I am not.

    That's pretty irrational, to me. That's distinguishing and targeting a class of people not for merit or deserved restrictions but for who they are.

    I don't have to have the law enforce respect for me, because the huge majority of people take me at face value as the person I am, and I behave in ways that earn their respect... even the same people who are passing laws against people like me. And believe me, I have given people in my life the freedom to accept or reject me, despite some the rejections hurting pretty hard, so you can knock off your false notions here of what I expect; I've taken the lumps to prove I've given people liberty to respond to me how they want.

    Right now, in this thread, we're talking "LEGAL SYSTEM" and people who are trying to issue bans against entire groups of people, not about whether the cops are going to try and force you to attend Joe Schmoe's gay wedding as a sign of respect. So why are you involved again? Why is this issue so far away from you and so irrelevant to you so important?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'm totally intrigued by this because its the exact argument I would make against certain attempts to have the state sanction and enforce cultural norms such as public approval for homosexuality.
    Amusing, isn't it?

    I'm betting that somehow its different and this is just more evidence that I'm a hateful bigot though
    Nice -- first in assuming I was specifically referring to you instead of to the Texans in the title of this thread, and second, in doing the typical "Lark dodge/dismissal" of anything you don't seriously want to contemplate.

    You've got it down pat -- downplay, poke fun, dismiss, make the person who disagrees with you sound like the extremist. Anything but actually discuss a topic on its own merits.

    To avoid me saying anything really stupid at this point, I'm going to self-moderate and leave this thread. Have fun. Damn. I just tried to Ban myself from the thread but it won't let me... arg. I'll have to do it the old-fashioned way.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #29
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Posts
    6,276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    You people act as if this is the first time sodomy laws were proposed in America.
    Sodomy laws in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    No one is acting that way. What we thought was that we, as a society, had learned that laws like that are impossible to enforce.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #30
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    Yin
    Enneagram
    One sx/sp
    Posts
    13,909

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    No one is acting that way. What we thought was that we, as a society, had learned that laws like that are impossible to enforce.
    Also, if they were enforceable, they would be wrong to enforce anyway.

    Yes, a number of states still have sodomy laws in the books, but they are defunct now. People don't ge incarcerated for sodomy, it isn't brought up in court, etc. For the two reasons above, we can be happy for that.

    The fact that in Texas they are pressing to bring this back obviously means they do not want a defunct sodomy law, they want an active one, and that's ridiculous.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


    _________________________________
    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

Similar Threads

  1. Gay marriage and black people
    By great_bay in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 02-22-2016, 10:30 PM
  2. Polygamy and Gay Marriage
    By lowtech redneck in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 06-03-2014, 08:59 PM
  3. Gay Marriage and SCOTUS: Hi ho and here we go
    By Totenkindly in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 12-09-2012, 07:20 AM
  4. Iowa Supreme Court Overturns Gay-Marriage Ban
    By 01011010 in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 93
    Last Post: 04-12-2009, 12:58 PM
  5. Gay rights, marriage, and adoption
    By Kiddo in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 206
    Last Post: 06-09-2008, 10:15 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO