User Tag List

First 210111213 Last

Results 111 to 120 of 130

  1. #111
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,629

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Is this a sincere statement? By what do you mean revolution exactly? I would strongly say that most revolutions in history were worse than that one.
    Yeah its sincere.

    By revolution I mean revolution, I tend to share Orwell's view that they have all been failures, I'm not even as quick to qualify it with the statement "but not all the same sort of failure" as Orwell was.

    Define worse Magic, there's been more blood shed, sure, more tyranny, greater betrayal of the great, grand, couldnt fault it dream which sparked it all, greater counter revolutions but purely personally as revolutions go its the one I like the least and shrink from any support of. Its effects have been pretty insidious.

    Marx satirised revolution as much as he supported the idea, he said the French had fought for liberty, egalite, fraternite but got infantry, cavalry and artillary in some comment on bonapartism. Its pretty much my view too.

    Just for clarifications sake I dont regard womens liberation or reproductive rights under the same heading as sexual revolution, by that I understand pornography, commodification of sex, free love for cash, casualisation of relationships and pretty much the full gumit of the most good, the true, the beautiful side of life subjected to Marx's "all that is solid melts into air".

    Man, late again, keep logging on here late when I cant sleep and it probably doesnt help any Here man, sorry for not responding to your earlier post yet, I'll try and get around to it, its similar to the time I pestered you to post about psychodynamics and socio-biology vs. memetics in psychology. I'm also glutting the thread and the forum and that's a bit shit too.

  2. #112
    Junior Member oxyjen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    INtP
    Posts
    19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    live and let live .
    At last, a philosophy I can get behind. I don't get why Texas GOP and its sympathizers really give a shit. So what if gays were allowed to marry? Then we can stop this stupid fighting.

    The government is there to protect freedoms of its people, not for protecting any cultural movements. Marriage is the domain of the government--churches can do whatever the hell they want.

    I have read some of your responses to Jennifer and I don't know how much hope I have for a productive discussion, but I feel morally obligated to at least throw that two cents in.

  3. #113
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    My favorite revolution:



    Quote Originally Posted by oxyjen View Post
    At last, a philosophy I can get behind. I don't get why Texas GOP and its sympathizers really give a shit. So what if gays were allowed to marry? Then we can stop this stupid fighting.
    Pretty much. "Live and let live" is a wonderful thesis when you're the one in power.

    I still don't see why it's anyone's business what other people are doing behind closed doors or aren't even noticed by people in daily life. Less interference, not more.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #114
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,629

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by oxyjen View Post
    At last, a philosophy I can get behind. I don't get why Texas GOP and its sympathizers really give a shit. So what if gays were allowed to marry? Then we can stop this stupid fighting.

    The government is there to protect freedoms of its people, not for protecting any cultural movements. Marriage is the domain of the government--churches can do whatever the hell they want.

    I have read some of your responses to Jennifer and I don't know how much hope I have for a productive discussion, but I feel morally obligated to at least throw that two cents in.
    I've got trouble reconciling your second paragraph with your first, I'm sure there are people motivated by just hating homosexuality (as I'm sure there's people motivated by hating heterosexuality in the opposition) but the fact of the matter is that there are people who strongly feel that the government, as you say, not for protecting any cultural movements, hence reaction takes the shape of things like this.

    The positions of people who are concerned about the cultural struggle that is grown up with gay rights ARE totally incomprehensible to many people who are incised by present or past injustices, violence and oppression against homosexuals. That's a problem. Its like so much of modern day politics, particularly in the US from what I understand at second hand, its reaching the point where people offering opinions are divided by a common language, the same words have different meanings, there's entrenched emotive reactions or sentiments.

    I would say who cares, if I honestly believed that the sort of appeasement solution you're suggesting would work, I dont honestly believe that government "marriages" with the churches doing their own thing is going to satisfy or be sufficient. The idea's to ram home acceptance and give a minority lifestyle parity with the majority, infact to consciously, consistently and deliberately undermine the perception of the majority lifestyle as "normal", the legislator is deemed the means to that end.

    In the UK at least, from what I read of the US it doesnt appear that different, there's a boldness about deliberate attempts to undermine the pervasiveness of heterosexuality which simply could not be displayed vice versa. It'd be prohibited as bigotry. This creates alienation which gets channelled by nutty platforms like this one.

    I have read some of your responses to Jennifer and I don't know how much hope I have for a productive discussion, but I feel morally obligated to at least throw that two cents in
    I'd appreciate a bit of clarification about this, why exactly dont you expect there to be a productive discussion? I'll admit I'm a bit OCD about forums, maybe its the feeling morally obligated you mention, but I've not much hope of passing on topics that interest me and I'm interested in examining others views and motives too. Maybe that's off topic.

    If its any use, intractible differences of opinion on another forum, mainly on the topic of economics, government and employment pretty much ground things to a halt there, so I'd understand if that's it. If I was less OCD, like I say, I'd maybe pass when I meet people I'd not persuade of anything.

    Shocking as it may seem and thick skinned and all as I may be, getting called a bigot, game player, questioning my integrity still has a propensity to bother me, its something without wishing to disrespect anyone in return I dont like to leave unanswered.

  5. #115
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,629

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    My favorite revolution:





    Pretty much. "Live and let live" is a wonderful thesis when you're the one in power.

    I still don't see why it's anyone's business what other people are doing behind closed doors or aren't even noticed by people in daily life. Less interference, not more.
    I like it

    Anyway, would that it where a case of people minding their own business Jenn, that's not really the case when its brought out on to the streets in demos, parades, marches though is it? Or brought into the schools in books for youngsters? Taught as the norm in sex ed classes etc.

    Maybe I'm wrong and this isnt happening, I'm maybe giving credience to a minority of very vocal pundits on each side of the debate but any how, I could live easy in a world where it where a irrelevence but there's a lot of people not content with that.

  6. #116
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    Yin
    Enneagram
    One sx/sp
    Posts
    13,909

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I would say who cares, if I honestly believed that the sort of appeasement solution you're suggesting would work, I dont honestly believe that government "marriages" with the churches doing their own thing is going to satisfy or be sufficient. The idea's to ram home acceptance and give a minority lifestyle parity with the majority, infact to consciously, consistently and deliberately undermine the perception of the majority lifestyle as "normal", the legislator is deemed the means to that end.
    None of this sounds scary to me, but it apparently seems to be wrong or threatening to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    In the UK at least, from what I read of the US it doesnt appear that different, there's a boldness about deliberate attempts to undermine the pervasiveness of heterosexuality which simply could not be displayed vice versa. It'd be prohibited as bigotry. This creates alienation which gets channelled by nutty platforms like this one.
    I see no one attempting to undermine heterosexuality. I see people promoting the acceptance of homosexuality, and accepting homosexuality does not in any way inherently undermine heterosexuality.

    And I think you may be getting some sociological terms mixed up here. Telling people to accept something actually isn't the same as making it the norm.

    I could summarize my response to a multitude of posts by simply saying that I don't know what you are so worried about.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


    _________________________________
    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  7. #117
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Again, stop applying the context of your country to ours if you're going to discuss our country's rules and culture. It's not the same. I've already pointed this out three or four times to you and you stubbornly refuse to acknowledge that the contexts might be different. You'd have more credibility if you'd actually acknowledge some nuanced differences here.

    Thanks.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #118
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,629

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    None of this sounds scary to me, but it apparently seems to be wrong or threatening to you.



    I see no one attempting to undermine heterosexuality. I see people promoting the acceptance of homosexuality, and accepting homosexuality does not in any way inherently undermine heterosexuality.

    And I think you may be getting some sociological terms mixed up here. Telling people to accept something actually isn't the same as making it the norm.

    I could summarize my response to a multitude of posts by simply saying that I don't know what you are so worried about.
    Yeah, I've got different sources from you MP, its obvious to me that its about as innoxious a thing as someone promoting KFC over BK. I understand where you're coming from but its not a perspective I can share in.

  9. #119
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,629

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Again, stop applying the context of your country to ours if you're going to discuss our country's rules and culture. It's not the same. I've already pointed this out three or four times to you and you stubbornly refuse to acknowledge that the contexts might be different. You'd have more credibility if you'd actually acknowledge some nuanced differences here.

    Thanks.
    If I stop commenting on anything to do with the US I'm going to be able to participate in very little you know.

  10. #120
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6
    Posts
    24,060

    Default

    People often get very anxious when faced with the prospect of losing their majority privilege. This is nothing new. Answering critique of that attitude with "live and let live" does take a special kind of nerve, though.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

Similar Threads

  1. Gay marriage and black people
    By great_bay in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 02-22-2016, 10:30 PM
  2. Polygamy and Gay Marriage
    By lowtech redneck in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 06-03-2014, 08:59 PM
  3. Gay Marriage and SCOTUS: Hi ho and here we go
    By Totenkindly in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 12-09-2012, 07:20 AM
  4. Iowa Supreme Court Overturns Gay-Marriage Ban
    By 01011010 in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 93
    Last Post: 04-12-2009, 12:58 PM
  5. Gay rights, marriage, and adoption
    By Kiddo in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 206
    Last Post: 06-09-2008, 10:15 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO