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  1. #101
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    I realize this was from pages ago, but still:

    Actually, the consensus seems to be that attitudes were far more varied that that by time and place. See Homosexuality in ancient Rome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. The introduction reads:
    For the most part this largely confirms what I've already said, particularly how there was more acceptance for it among the upper classes. There actually seems to be more mentioning of how often same-sex relations were condemned from various perspectices within Roman society.

    I think the introduction's caution about using the term "homosexuality" is interesting from a modern perspective. To a modern gay man, being gay is as much about who you fall in love with (and emotionally bond to) as it is about the sex. (Okay, at least for this INFP.)
    As I said before, sexual "orientation" did not exist in the Greco-Roman or even Biblical for that matter worldview. It's a concept dating from the 19th century.

    Of course, the modern conception of marriage is also quite different in its emphasis on emotional closeness and compatibility. It makes me wonder if the idea of "homosexuality" partially falls from culturally seeking to align marriage with sexual attraction and emotional intimacy, as opposed to being about political and economic ties between families.
    Interesting theory, but it would fall flat on some grounds. The emphasis on intimacy within marriage goes back quite a few years, even if one simply looks at the Christian tradition for example. In fact it's often argued that Christianity actually helped free marriage more from political-economic concerns, and placed it more on the intimate bond of two sould before God.

    No the origins of "gay marriage" lay more within the mentality that prevailed in wake of the Sexual Revolution.

  2. #102
    Sniffles
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    Plenty of mention could also be made of romance literature in Islamic cultures as well, which supposedly had an influence in the development of Medieval concepts of Courtly Love.

  3. #103
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    No the origins of "gay marriage" lay more within the mentality that prevailed in wake of the Sexual Revolution.
    As revolutions go that's the one I like the least.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Plenty of mention could also be made of romance literature in Islamic cultures as well, which supposedly had an influence in the development of Medieval concepts of Courtly Love.
    I've got the book of the courtier, is this the same thing? I've also got the perfumed garden with a preface by Richard Burton, Burton saw fit to say that he thought it was a book full of taboo, particularly of oral sex, which might confirm the passive/active thing, I dont know, Burton liked Karma Sutra and Hindu love more I'm pretty sure.

    For my part I think there's a hell of a lot of mentioning faith and morals while at the same time trying to write and erotic version of arabian nights, could be philistine me but I just thought that.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by burymecloser View Post
    eagleseven is right. I like the idea, but screw Austin, let's have it at Lark's place.

    Queers and allies, changing the world one lawn at a time.
    Yeah, nothing like that to confirm me in my beliefs and all.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    I was just watching a jaw-dropping documentary about how the Mormons set up the Christian Coalition and coerced their members to contribute all the money they could from anywhere they could dig it up (children's college funds, life savings, etc.) to contribute to the passage of Prop 8, so the sums of money behind it were astronomical, and then they recruited non-mormons to go door to door selling the idea, making blogs and youtubes about it, and spreading the word, and when the final push came, tons of people from Utah showed up in California to finish the push. Now it makes me wonder where this stuff is coming from in Texas.
    Its not a mormon plot surely? I mean I've heard stories about Mormons, community gold and campaign financing for ages but I figured it was just conspiracy theorising.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentMind View Post
    So, engaging in passive sex makes you a bitch? Is that what you're saying? Or at least, is that what you believe it's been framed as? That concept would mean that women are bitches. Freaking ace.

    Also, man, that's kind of a fucked up thing to call someone who's been raped - calling them a bitch, that is. Methinks the real bitch is the one who can't get an actual lay.
    What? That's a weird ass post.

    I was responding to Peguy's post, I'm afraid in modern times the attitudes of mysogynists or other nasty types towards, their term, "bitches" would be the same as the example Peguy was making.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I'm still confused as to what sort of asshole has something against blowjobs... blowjobs are AWESOME!

    I don't think I could trust anyone who based a platform on the idea that oral sex is bad... or anal for that matter, even though I'm not the biggest fan... I express myself through sex, banning that is an infringement of my first amendment rights!


    Awesome! Just absolutely awesome Whatever!

  9. #109
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    As revolutions go that's the one I like the least.
    Is this a sincere statement? By what do you mean revolution exactly? I would strongly say that most revolutions in history were worse than that one.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Yes, you are. You're suggesting that homosexuals need to be celibate.

    This thread is about outlawing sodomy in Texas.
    That means gay people will be considered outlaws unless they are celibate with the people they are attracted to.
    This is like saying heterosexuals are outlaws if they are not celibate.

    It seems pretty clear to me.
    I'm not ignoring the rest of your post Jenn, I dont want to clog the thread and there's much that I've pretty much addressed already or addressed before.

    You dont want me to pass comment on the US, you dont believe my live and let live posts, you suggest that I breeze, skip, etc. etc. and make a lot of unsupported arguments. All I'm hearing is you want me to shut up one way or another, that my views are born of prejudice and an ignorance of the facts, if I where in full possession of the facts I'd be in agreement. That's what I'm hearing and it aint so.

    Although its reaching the point, with the bad feeling and thread clogging that I'm going to avoid the topic, now construe that as you will, as one great big dodge or slinking off truly "told" for soap boxing or megaphoning my views but I think I've made my position pretty clear and I'll have to content myself with that.

    Right, specifically on topic, which is why I selected this quote here. If you read my initial post in the thread, its understandable that you've not, you've said you where ignoring me, I didnt support the outlawing of anything and I dont care if homosexuals are celibate or not.

    Further to that original post I posted in reply to your post in which you pretty much suggested that this policy was just born of a special kind of hateful madness and its both ridiculous and incomprehensible, I replied that it wasnt the case. Now you can depict people like that if you want, you can depict policies or perspectives like that too but I dont believe its going to achieve much, besides reducing discussion to a kind of "cops and robbers" or "cowboys and indians".

    Could well be born of a lot of raving lunatic gospel but by the same token there's been a serious effort from all quarters to politicise homosexuality and move it centre stage, whether its pro or contra and not a lot of people around saying like Peguy that they think its irrelevent. So I dont think policies like this are incomprehensible or the work of a band of crazies which'll only appeal to crazies, even if, like I said, I think its both stupid and wrong to try and police people in this manner.

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