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  1. #1
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    Default "Sovereigners" - America's newest crazies

    Well it seems that America certainly is not short on home grown terrorists... too bad there doesn't seem to be much outrage in response to this kind of terrorism.

    One muslim guy recently tries and fails to set off a badly designed car bomb in New York and it's all over the national headlines - everyone is in a panic - meanwhile we've got home grown crazies shooting down police officers with AK47s and more planning similar attacks and it barely makes the news. WTF?!

    Sigh... somedays I just can't believe this is the same country so many people fought and died for..

    - Deadly Arkansas Shooting By Sovereign Citizens Jerry Kane and Joseph Kane - ABC News

    - http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/30/us/30militia.html

    - FBI agents arrest 2 in Ohio; militia suspected target | cleveland.com
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    watch where you're driving f$cktards! I have the right of way!!! :steam:

  2. #2
    Senior Member eagleseven's Avatar
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    You forget that, in America, we make home-grown terrorists into distinguished educators.


  3. #3

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    Scary. All forms of terrorism. Whether external or internal, right-wing or left-wing.

    But I believe a lot of it comes from indoctrination, and the younger ones can change their ways if kept away from their bad influences. Again, in all forms of terrorism.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    It's always seemed silly to me how home-grown terrorists in the US are so much more successful than foreign-trained ones.

    It just goes to show you the power of some American training.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

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    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    It's always seemed silly to me how home-grown terrorists in the US are so much more successful than foreign-trained ones.

    It just goes to show you the power of some American training.
    Let's not forget the training and weaponry the US provided to the Taliban in Afghanistan in and around 1990 - so I guess you could almost call that home-grown too??
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
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    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
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  6. #6
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    It's always seemed silly to me how home-grown terrorists in the US are so much more successful than foreign-trained ones.

    It just goes to show you the power of some American training.
    Well, really, this is true in almost any country. States put more attention on the things going in and out of the national borders than every single thing going on inside the country, particularly if it emerged in the country and has always been there.

    Also, for the terrorist, it's just a hell of a lot easier to get to a target within the country you were born and raised in, then something in an entirely different place.

    Finally, domestic terrorists seem "normal" enough in character to not rouse suspicion as much as a foreigner.
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsatiableCuriosity View Post
    Let's not forget the training and weaponry the US provided to the Taliban in Afghanistan in and around 1990 - so I guess you could almost call that home-grown too??
    Providing weapons and training only gives them the means to launch terrorist attacks on the USA - but that isn't nearly the same thing as citizens of our own country launching attacks against their own people.

    This father and son from Ohio were what most would consider the average american - in the sense that they were exposed to the American ideology etc all of their lives... and yet they thought it would be a good idea to gun down police officers in their own country during a routine traffic stop... Others have planned to take over an entire state via premeditated murder of the entire police department?!

    This really is a sad situation for the USA and a slap in the face to all of those who have defended this country... Foreign terrorism is unfortunate but it is worse when you have this element at home.. that truly says something about what is allowed to fester in your home country... We need to focus our attention towards home... When cops are getting shot by home grown terrorists for no other reason than they're sick of our government and no longer feel as though they are bound by the laws passed by it - we have a major problem...

    just my two cents.
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    watch where you're driving f$cktards! I have the right of way!!! :steam:

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Finally, domestic terrorists seem "normal" enough in character to not rouse suspicion as much as a foreigner.
    The thing about most US home grown terrorists is that their ideology is pretty mainstream too, its the staple of pretty popular conservative media and publishing and its of a long, long standing pedigree.

    The reactions of some former establishment icons on a more international stage, like George Soros, to what he has described as "market fundamentalism" prove that the ideology of most of the "crazies" in US militias is actually shared at a lot of levels, some very powerful, monied and influential people share it. There are very powerful think tanks and corporations which are paid a lot of money to dispense, disseminate and reinforce the free market ideology and carry out an assault on all sources of skepticism or critical thinking even, let alone any explicit alternatives.

    Some of this is a result of the free market counter revolution against Keynesianism or intellectual Marxism, which even if it had no alternative at least thought one could eventually be called for. Marxism had a clear eyed vision of capitalism even if it did nothing in practice other than spawn a system whose only really marxist action was to collapse under the weight of its own internal contradictions. I dont know if Hayek et al ever believed that their perspectives could some day becme like the very ideological campaigning they sought to challenge.

    Its also a reflection of the left and right in politics since the Cold War, the left has seen its utopias turn into dystopias and has accepted its limits, at least the "left" of professional, elite, politicians has but there's been nothing like it on the right wing. Plus the left fragmented and lost itself in a myrid of idetity politics, totally accepting to a great extent the tales that the right told about "what" it was/is.

    So what you have are individuals on the right who behave as true believers in a way which was once typical of Trotskyites, hell, lots and lots of the rehtoric and style of debate is a carbon copy. Francis Wheen in the UK coined a term for them "Market-Leninists" (as opposed to Marxist-Leninists). I started out in the ninties arguing with trotskyites about vanguardism, violence, ideology contra evidence and anything that didnt fit with their theory and I've since come full circle having the exact same arguments, the exact same ones, with free marketeers now.

    At the root of each is an unwillingness to accept an imperfect world which isnt exactly congruent with their values or ideology, that might sound pretty conservative to point that out but that's not what modern day conservatism does.

    I reckon the next great revolutionary disaster will be a "conservative" one, when either with or without the backing of state power, the US attempts some sort of "social correction" or "social reset" involving a radical reversion to the ideologial dream, in terms of economy, proper sphere of government etc. that's been passed on with mothers milk. All the surplus people who can not in any way be absorbed into an entirely free market economy or survive on the little money which I suspect NGOs or society could circulate wont quietly starve. In the end when the hopes founder, like the right wings own Paris Commune, the choice again will be "republic or empire" and Bush co.'s popularity and the Patriot Act have made it clear it'll be the later.

  9. #9
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    There are so many people who tell liberals if they don't like the country to leave, I think we should say the same to conservatives. I bet they'd like Hong Kong.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  10. #10
    Senior Member eagleseven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    The reactions of some former establishment icons on a more international stage, like George Soros, to what he has described as "market fundamentalism" prove that the ideology of most of the "crazies" in US militias is actually shared at a lot of levels, some very powerful, monied and influential people share it.
    George Soros, the currency speculator who made his fortune short-selling the British Pound on Black Wednesday, has never been an establishment icon. Soros is the 29th-richest person in the world.

    He is one of the very powerful, monied, influential people investing in political parties around the globe, and has personally funded more than his fair share of rebellions.

    Just wanted to point that out

    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    There are so many people who tell liberals if they don't like the country to leave, I think we should say the same to conservatives. I bet they'd like Hong Kong.
    I know several who have happily moved to Hong Kong.

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