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Thread: Guns!

  1. #41
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    In the States, we consider self-defense to be a self-evidently "legitimate" and "genuine" reason to own guns. I personally would not wish to live in a country where it isn't.
    ~luck favors the ready~


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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post



    An armed citizenry is a good check and balance against would be tyrants in a government gone bad...
    I have always thought this was the one good thing about Guns in the USA.. also.. Think of how difficult it would be to invade the USA.. not only is their Military armed to the teeth.. but so are it's citizens.

  3. #43
    Oberon
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    I really do not understand the mindset that would propose that defending one's self and loved ones from harm is somehow illegitimate, or immoral.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Pixelholic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    I really do not understand the mindset that would propose that defending one's self and loved ones from harm is somehow illegitimate, or immoral.
    It's often taken to an extreme or done in an irresponsible manner. For every hundred responsible gun owners you have someone who decides its his job to enact justice on whomever. Or you have the police state feel threatened (like what happened in the 60s with the Black Panthers movement arming itself. Funnily enough, gun laws in the cities followed shortly after that.)

    People love talking about rights without talking about responsibilities too, it's like parts of the US act like an entitled thirteen year old.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.” -Nietzsche

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    I really do not understand the mindset that would propose that defending one's self and loved ones from harm is somehow illegitimate, or immoral.
    Neither do I, nor do I understand the supposedly "Enlightened" mindset that would typify an entire nation by a few fringe individuals who occupy a "violent gun culture".

  6. #46
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pixelholic View Post
    It's often taken to an extreme or done in an irresponsible manner. For every hundred responsible gun owners you have someone who decides its his job to enact justice on whomever.
    I don't think the actual number of "vigilante" events is nearly as high as you state here. I don't think it's as high as one in ten thousand responsible (i.e. non-criminal) gun owners. I'll have to look back through my Lott and Kleck sources to see if I can find some numbers on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pixelholic View Post
    People love talking about rights without talking about responsibilities too, it's like parts of the US act like an entitled thirteen year old.
    This smells like regional bias to me, but I could of course be wrong. Which parts of the US were you specifically referring to?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pixelholic View Post
    Or you have the police state feel threatened (like what happened in the 60s with the Black Panthers movement arming itself. Funnily enough, gun laws in the cities followed shortly after that.)
    There you are... you've hit some pay dirt there, though I think your time frame is a little off. In the east, most of the urban gun laws date to the turn of the 20th century or a little before. They were designed to keep guns out of the hands of immigrant populations and blacks.

  7. #47
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Personally, I think guns should be illegal. That is, only after we've shot every last idiotic piece of scum on the Earth.

    That's how I would handle it anyways.
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  8. #48
    Senior Member Pixelholic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    I don't think the actual number of "vigilante" events is nearly as high as you state here. I don't think it's as high as one in ten thousand responsible (i.e. non-criminal) gun owners. I'll have to look back through my Lott and Kleck sources to see if I can find some numbers on that.
    Yeah, I have no back up for that number, I was mostly trying to make a rhetorical point about bad apples giving gun ownership a bad name.


    This smells like regional bias to me, but I could of course be wrong. Which parts of the US were you specifically referring to?
    I grew up in a pretty conservative part of the midwest. I knew plenty of responsible gun owners like hunters. I've also met my fair share of paranoid crazies who think the postal worker is spying on them for the government. My dad also taught me how to shoot and I had a conceal and carry license though I've never actually owned a gun. I also lived in a pretty bad inner city neighborhood for a bit that while the propensity of violence was vastly over exaggerated, there was still a fair amount of gun violence, though there were also stabbings and muggings without guns *shrugs*.

    It's all purely anecdotal which I readily admit.

    There you are... you've hit some pay dirt there, though I think your time frame is a little off. In the east, most of the urban gun laws date to the turn of the 20th century or a little before. They were designed to keep guns out of the hands of immigrant populations and blacks.
    Yeah, this is the real crux of the violence issue, gun bans or lax gun laws aren't really going to change something like this. It's why these fights over gun laws just seem like a good smokescreen for politicians to dodge the real problems.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.” -Nietzsche

  9. #49
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Don't you take ma gunz

  10. #50
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    McDonald v. Chicago came down from the Supes today. Incorporates the Second Amendment under the Heller v. District of Columbia standard, which recognizes guns possessed for self-defense as a fundamental right.

    Any thoughts?

    Edit: sorry for the legalese. "Incorporates" means that a portion of the Bill of Rights applies to the states via the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.
    Self-defence is a human right, in a country that believes in self-reliance in all other things it would be absurd to believe defence is any different.

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