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Thread: Guns!

  1. #21
    Black Magic Buzzard Kra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Those urban areas with the high gun violence rates usually have the strictest gun control, too. A lot of it has to do with our insane drug laws, which make drug dealing very dangerous and very lucrative. The most corrupt people with the least hesitance to turn to violence are the ones who get to the top.
    I always thought it funny how often people forget this.

    Gun smuggling is already a lucrative business as well, and raising the demand for their product is not going to reduce the problem.
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  2. #22
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kra View Post
    I always thought it funny how often people forget this.

    Gun smuggling is already a lucrative business as well, and raising the demand for their product is not going to reduce the problem.

    Oh yah plus all the illegal arms trade that goes on, plenty big business.
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  3. #23
    shadow boxer strawberries's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Those urban areas with the high gun violence rates usually have the strictest gun control, too. A lot of it has to do with our insane drug laws, which make drug dealing very dangerous and very lucrative. The most corrupt people with the least hesitance to turn to violence are the ones who get to the top.
    i agree with you. i'm not saying stricter gun control is a panacea for gun violence. criminogenic influences are very complex. however, in my view, clusters of disadvantage + a culture that casualises gun ownership/carriage is a dangerous combination. my point in bringing up the australian example is to provide context - i think the law here reflects a vastly different attitude held by the majority regarding firearms. it's a cultural/national-identity debate in the US as much as it is a constitutional one.

  4. #24
    Black Magic Buzzard Kra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GemPOPGem View Post
    Oh yah plus all the illegal arms trade that goes on, plenty big business.
    Which is why I tend to think that a firearm ban is more likely to increase violent crime than do any good. Look what prohibition did for alcohol. And look what current drug trade is doing in urban areas all over the country. It's essentially the same model.

    On a side note, I do think that firearm education (safety and proper operation) should be encouraged more than it is. That would produce tangible results pretty quickly.
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  5. #25
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GemPOPGem View Post
    Hmmm, much concern.
    Do you think there would be so many gun crimes if gun ownership were illegal?
    Obviously there would have to be a huge amnesty for firearms to be handed over plus a nationwide crackdown on illegal gun manufacturing/fencing first. (and i'm sure there would need to be other measures too)
    but hypothetically?
    Not in the United States, no. Gun crimes would still be very high by rich world standards. Part of it is the culture, part of it is gun laws, part of it is extremely high incarceration rates, part of it is relatively harsh penalties for crimes (which means more felons turned loose with little to no job prospects). Severe gun restrictions will just make it harder for innocent citizens to defend themselves. Violent crime has fallen in pretty much every state that has legalized concealed carry, so it's clearly not a problem of armed people freaking out and shooting someone over parking spaces or foul language.
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kra View Post
    Which is why I tend to think that a firearm ban is more likely to increase violent crime than do any good. Look what prohibition did for alcohol. And look what current drug trade is doing in urban areas all over the country. It's essentially the same model.

    On a side note, I do think that firearm education (safety and proper operation) should be encouraged more than it is. That would produce tangible results pretty quickly.
    I would tend to agree. Also, "gun deaths" are a very misleading statistic. The majority of deaths by gun in the United States are suicides. Still tragic, but random gun violence by a criminal against a civilian is not nearly as common as most non-Americans seem to believe.
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  7. #27
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Most of the people I know that own guns legally don't concern me. They are -very- safety conscious and knowledgeable about what they are doing, and I'm in Texas, so that's a lot of people. Everyone that I have spoken to (and myself) that has taken a concealed carry course (to get a license) has had the fear of God put into them of ever using their weapon.

    I have used a gun in self defense, though, and wholeheartedly support the right to carry. However, I think open carry is more effective than concealed (such as the case here).


    In regards to the "nuts" that are concerned about the government taking away their ability to defend themselves. That isn't really as crazy as it sounds. Look at the ludicrous laws that have been passed to limit firearms sale/possession already such as the "assault weapons" ban and bans on weapons like sawed off shotguns and maximum magazine capacities. If the government takes weapons away it's going to do it slowly. Americans really don't -do anything- about anything the government does. We get pissed and bitch and then go back to watching t.v.
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    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Not in the United States, no. Gun crimes would still be very high by rich world standards. Part of it is the culture, part of it is gun laws, part of it is extremely high incarceration rates, part of it is relatively harsh penalties for crimes (which means more felons turned loose with little to no job prospects). Severe gun restrictions will just make it harder for innocent citizens to defend themselves. Violent crime has fallen in pretty much every state that has legalized concealed carry, so it's clearly not a problem of armed people freaking out and shooting someone over parking spaces or foul language.

    I'm thinking it over, it's clearly a world problem and very complex. I find myself wondering that even if it were possible to disarm every American and destroy all guns and paraphernalia (again all hypothetically), then would the outcome possibly be a combined case of corruption organized crime and international arms dealers that would monopolize a gun trade with the elite of criminal gangs and richest persons leading to a super militia/mafia (sort of and of sorts)?
    I may be going off on a tangent here, just typing my thoughts as they come.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And further, I would like to hear your passionate support for the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
    The Universal Declaration of Human Rights
    Article 3.
    Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.
    One could argue that the right to firearms helps ensure one's right to security of person. Perhaps I should also mention one of the drafters of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Jacques Maritain, argued that an armed citizenry was necessary for a free society.

  10. #30
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    The United Nations is awesome because it allows countries to say everything the people want to here without having to actually do anything.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

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