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  1. #61
    Starcrossed Seafarer Aquarelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stol11 View Post
    The answer to this question is why would anyone learn French? I admire France and like the people, but the language is next to useless. It is a massive chip on the shoulder of every Frenchman that leads to the current state of arrogant deluded self-importance in terms of language. I can think of lots of languages that are more useful, Chinese, Arabic, Spanish even Russian and American, as I don't acknowledge current US English as real English.

    Who speaks French apart from France, half of Belgium a Third of Switzerland, swathes of sparsely populated Saharan and sub-Saharan Africa and a few Caribbean islands.
    Well, parts of Canada and Louisiana, too...

    I learned French because it is a beautiful language and I wanted to be able to read French literature and poetry in the original.

    Also, I have also translated French literature into English (or American, if you like) in order to make it accessible to a wider audience. How is that not useful? I am also currently translating several documents for an asylum seeker from Togo, and have done the same from asylum seekers in Congo and other African countries. This is pretty useful, as being granted asylum will allow them to stay in the US and not return to their home countries where they may be killed for political reasons.

    I've also learned Russian and Spanish. I use my Spanish a lot too, but Russian not nearly as much. I adore it though - it's probably my favorite language that I've studied. I'm also learning Irish... and it's not useless either, because it makes me feel connected to my Irish heritage and also helps preserve a language that is in danger of dying out (thanks in no small part to the British... don't get me wrong, I don't hold a grudge and I have absolutely no problem with the British, but... I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin').

    In short, I don't believe it is useless to learn ANY language.

  2. #62
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    ya, ze germans have just started to teach their kids sinologie, when the chinese decided to decrease business contacts with the germans.

    Problem is, the chinese think, we got far to many regulations and only want to draw em back in their building ideas.

    Shall the germans be the vulcans in the end ? And i so hoped for romulan -.-
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #63
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stol11 View Post
    What underlying and ignored Racism, coming from the USA?

    Self Criticism! How on earth can you say that when Europeans who are
    experts Self deprecation. I live in a country, that although i admire the history, is not exactly wonderful..

    Those 'paralysing social safety nets' I persume you mean a degree of social welfare. Rather than leaving people to die in the streets.

    EU structure is too convoluted i'll give you that one, although It should be reformed

    Backbone? In terms of war, there is not a province in Europe not touched by the blood of some war or another. usually on the most flimsy of pretexts. Its just that we THINK before taking a monumentous act like going to war, and actually have respect for international bodies. American ''Backbone'' has led to no end of trouble

    Ignoring security! what rubbish, just because Europeans don't sanction torture and illegal prisons? Security in the UK is far to tight at the moment, we live in a complete surveillance state. Also the problem is we think every solution is FROM America! Thats why our country is in such a bad state

    Bagels are available everywhere, thats due to the unfortunate nature of having everything Americanised.

    Maybe less milk but better cheese, American cheese is appauling.

    Roads less navigable? maybe for an American, you are used to big empty roads thanks to an abundance of space. Also most towns in Europe were built before the onset of major road networks
    1. Racism is a problem in the USA but it's not hidden. It's been a salient issue for the last several decades. It is not ignored in everyday life, as it influences news coverage and popular entertainment. In europe, however, the case is different, yet racism remains prevalent. Far-right parties have seen an increase in popularity, racism remains one of the issues contributing to excluding Turkey, and North African immigration brings problems as well. Not to mention the Roma...

    2. Self-criticism: the overall response speaks for itself. And how long after the sister US thread was this thread begun? Europeans never seem to have a problem telling us everything that's wrong with the US, even when in our country.

    3. The paralyzing social nets: And I should point out that I also mean the obsession with worker benefits. Largely I suppose this is an issue of personal preference across countries, but I think this method stifles innovation and makes people lazy. To each his own on this though.

    4. Backbone: yes, all of Europe has seen war. It's got a long history of war, and now that has come to an end. The fighters of the old wars are gone, and all that remains is nations of appeasers. Demilitarization is popular and unwise, do simply to a popular radical aversion to use of force. And again with the response: well the US is bad, not us.

    5. Security: UK and Irish air travel is locked tight. Good for them, too. The rest of it is comparitively very lax. Also, many many people cry about the use of full-body scanners in airports, because, as usual, this safety measure designed to spot hidden plastic explosives and dangerous devices (important considering the past Christmas flight scare) infringes too much on privacy. Also the EU parliament rejected the SWIFT data sharing agreement made with the US made another EU body, again because it infringed too much on privacy, despite a number of data protection provisions and the vital usefulness of the deal for tracking terrorist finance. Actually, this may also have been a case of "I got you last" on behalf of the parliament to showcase their new power under Lisbon.

    6. Roads: I'll concede that EU roads are more confusing to Americans. This is because Americans are used to road systems that make sense, streets that have labels and don't change names every 250 meters (I can't rightly say after x number of blocks, because this would imply a coherent grid system of city planning that doesn't exist), and have good traffic signals like traffic lights. This is not a problem for Europeans because they are used to it, but a european who visits america will be much less confused by american roads than an american who visits europe, and this has nothing to do with americans being dumb.
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

  4. #64
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    turkey is excluded because they had the death penalty and because due to the moslem religion not holding up to the human rights charter of Europe, in which men and woman are Equals.

    Not due to racism.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  5. #65
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    I agree with you on the racism. It is a little more suptle here at times, but it is still there and it is nasty. On the other hand, it is not true that it doesn´t receive media coverage.
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  6. #66
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post

    2.Granted, and you might have noticed that I was the first to give a long list of things that are seriously wrong with this place. However what was criticized here is not Europe as a place, or cluster of cultures, or group of people, but a political ideology. The poster in question attacked political positions that have little to do with Europe vs America or the rest of the world and much more with left vs right. I responded to a right wing attack against the left, not an American attack on Europe. We can get our own "Europeans are bleeding heart commie treehuggers"-tread though, if that´s more appropriate
    You can trash this continent all you like, see if I give a damn, lol.
    You should know that the US is on average more right than the EU. Are we supposed to complain about the types of trees there or something, instead of politics? Besides, take a look at the US thread...
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

  7. #67
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    turkey is excluded because they had the death penalty and because due to the moslem religion not holding up to the human rights charter of Europe, in which men and woman are Equals.

    Not due to racism.
    When those problems are completely gone, it will still be excluded. Though it's not based only on racism, as i said, it still contributes. Or perhaps more accurately it's a religious bias.

    I also don't like the extreme secularism of europe.
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

  8. #68
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    You should know that the US is on average more right than the EU. Are we supposed to complain about the types of trees there or something, instead of politics? Besides, take a look at the US thread...
    Your are right, you are right. lol

    The fact that there is a certain correlation doesn´t mean I have to shut up when the idea of a solidarious welfare system is corroding all around me and somebody thinly disguises his contempt for a certain political direction with a tongue-in-cheek thread that started with Europeans bashing themselves.

    I did not read the Anti-US thread since I had no interest in the usual America-bashing discussions. But I´ll look into it.

    Discuss politics all you like (like the criteria used to decide on who to accept as an EU member, the latent racism and islamophobia, the submissive foreign policy, etc.). I just had the impression you were after the left more than you were after Europeans. And that would indeed be another thread.

    Also, when I say "left" I mean it in the most loose sense possible, since there are very different perceptions of what is left or right.
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  9. #69
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post

    2. Self-criticism: the overall response speaks for itself. And how long after the sister US thread was this thread begun? Europeans never seem to have a problem telling us everything that's wrong with the US, even when in our country.
    But well when you get criticized all day, you someday get really oblivious to it. If you on the other hand never get criticized, you are of course a bit pissed .

    I think this all a bit a splitting of hairs. What I think is that the european Union is not really a Union yet. The financial crisis now and all the shit, is some kind of first acid test we ever had.

    While the U.S. raises their flag to every festival and prays the american national anthem, in Europe there isnt really such a thing. So the real feeling of unity or proud patriotism hasnt really come to me yet.

    Tho the mutual work between european nations has become very good in the past, better than one could have ever expected, it's still the difficulty that every nation has to watch out for his own, cause there is no big government to rescue them.

    And before this nation-fixation cant be loosened, you'll not be able to compare Europe to the US at all.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  10. #70
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    When those problems are completely gone, it will still be excluded. Though it's not based only on racism, as i said, it still contributes. Or perhaps more accurately it's a religious bias.

    I also don't like the extreme secularism of europe.
    Maybe when they got money, they are accepted .

    I dont really know much about politics.

    Seculiarism I agree on, it's getting a problem many people turn away from church and dont know where to turn to after that. Tho I didnt want to have it any other way, cause church sucks too
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

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