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  1. #61
    heart on fire
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    May 2007


    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Besides, for these exact reasons, hiring someone into a leasehold tenancy became far more profitable. These people were nominally "free". They were in reality anything but.
    Oh okay, I misunderstood your meaning. But it still doesn't make their situations different from other poor immigrants from England or other places, does it?

    Why would records show far greater numbers of indentured servants from England in the same time? Wouldn't the buyers of those servants also want to hide their purchases to avoid tax? Why would the records show greater numbers of skilled tradesmen immigrating to America over common laborers in that time period?

  2. #62

    Default You Are What You Read?

    Socialist books in the White House library? A blog provides photo evidence but only part of the story - Short Stack

    I'm always interested about what's in peoples libraries but I dont leap to wild conclusions about them on that basis.

  3. #63
    Senior Member Reflection's Avatar
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    Jun 2010


    A library can tell you a lot about a person, but one shouldn't base their entire personality on it. I have tons of books in my library, ranging from mathematics to fairy tales - you could conclude I have a variety of interests but not much else.

    Besides, Americans are so irrationally afraid of socialism that they're blowing this up way out of proportion.
    Last edited by Reflection; 06-20-2010 at 02:30 PM. Reason: I really hate typos
    Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it.

  4. #64
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Apr 2007
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    It freaks me out at how quickly people snatch at anything that justifies their fears and currently held convictions and then start the rumor mill. This country just gets crazy sometimes.

    My library contains a lot of religious titles -- most from the evangelical perspective, ironically -- but it doesn't represent necessarily my actual held views. I just read a lot and like to understand the bigger picture. I would think a White House library, which trades hands every 4-8 years, would contain quite a variety of material.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #65
    Senior Member Daedalus's Avatar
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    May 2010


    Under the headline: "Photo Evidence: Michelle Obama Keeps Socialist Books in the White House Library," Port wrote that the White House tour guide said the library was stocked with books picked out by Michelle Obama. "Being a bit of a bibliophile," he wrote on the blog, "I started to peruse some of the books on the shelves...and lookie, lookie what I found."
    i feel like crying sometimes when i see the limitless stupidity displayed by some of the extreme right wingers when it comes to anything related to this case books.

    these blokes confuse socialism with

    if they want to have nothing to do with socialism, they should

    1 Disband the American Military and hire Blackwater'ish (now ) contractors

    2 Disband the Police, the 911 and the Fire brigades

    3 Do away with social security

    etc etc

    people are clueless as to how many socialist principles are practiced in America.

    whats even funnier is the Teaparty® blokes holding placards saying
    "We do not want any Czars" ,
    "Czars = communism"

    the Czars were against fact the Communists overthrew the Czars in order to establish communism. Lol. ...this is a prime example of the idiocy and lack of knowledge that goes hand in hand with the Teaparty® movement

    apparently those who are opposed to certain books seem to follow the time tested method of not learning about things that might go against their cherished worldviews. frogs in a well indeed
    Extraverted - 25 Introverted - 75
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    It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.

  6. #66
    Senior Member JHBowden's Avatar
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    May 2009


    Daedalus, there is nothing socialist about a government possessing means to defend itself. If your notion of socialism is true, then government is necessarily socialist, which makes socialism a synonym for government. Calling a government socialist would be an analytic proposition, and not a synthetic proposition, that is, a way of using words rather than a contingent fact about our world. But this is silly-- some governments clearly aren't socialist, and some are more socialist than others, so there isn't much utility in your proposal.

    Socialism is about government ownership over the means of production. Socialism in practice is always national socialism-- either the government owns a certain industrial sector outright (classical socialism), or asserts de facto control while leaving property in private hands (fascism).

    What the left in America doesn't want to talk about is that their economic plans are more fascist than classically socialist. Unfortunately, the word 'fascist' has been used and abused by just about everyone that the term no longer has a stable meaning.

    Socialism in practice has nothing to do with communism, since socialism in practice is always a top-down doctrine. But in theory, socialism has everything to do with communism. Why? Because it is a corollary of *equality*, the idea held as axiomatic to leftists of all varieties. Socialism is seen as merely the means to achieve the communistic ends, ends that are never realized in practice, but must be hoped for like a mirage in a future that never arrives. Government is used as a bully to destroy the rich and powerful while elevating those who "deserve their fair share."

  7. #67
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010


    I guess if all you did was read, then yes, you are what you read.

  8. #68


    Socialism has been pro and contra government per se and certainly pro and contra state intervention, regulation or control or ownership of the means of production.

    I couldnt consider your definitions correct JHB because by your definition the US government IS fascist and has at times been national socialist, the reality is that it takes more than keynesian economic management or central planning or even a command economy to qualify as either socialist, national-socialist, fascist or not, there are significant political and constituency issues besides the economy.

    Arguing otherwise is entirely facetious but well in tune with a simple minded free market ideology, although good point that government and socialism is not and shouldnt be considered synonymous.

  9. #69
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Jun 2009


    Anyone who doesn't have Das Kapital in their bookcase can't be considered well-read in political philosophy. You don't have to agree with it, but goddamn if it isn't one of the top three most important books of political economy in history.

  10. #70


    I dont own a copy, I've got a couple of collected works of Marx and Engels, a book of their writings on religion, biographies of each and book of Marx's writings about mankind prefaced and edited by Eric Fromm and LK's big giant history of Marxism from beginning to end. All that and would you believe that I'm not particularly sympathetic to Marxsm, I dont like the right wing's opposition to it but that doesnt mean I need to like the thing itself.

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