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  1. #91
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Right. If we didn't have capitalism, we'd have another mode of production, and then wages would be dependent on total productivity per head, which is diluted by a greater presence of workers (which, again, is a direct consequence of immigration). Ergo your argument still fails, even if we ignore the fact you ignored the entirety of my own counterclaim.
    It's true, the solution to economic issues is rarely pretty. The reason why Europe got higher wages for peasants and lower pay for landholders is because of the Plague, you know.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  2. #92
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Of course.
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  3. #93
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    I feel that "to each as he chooses, from each as he is chosen" is the best system we can have in a world with scarce resources.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  4. #94
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    I disagree. People have a tendency to choose poorly.
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  5. #95
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    I disagree. People have a tendency to choose poorly.
    And that is punished in the market. Or, it used to be. Now, if you are a shitty CEO, the 99.9% of the people in the country who are poorer than you bail you out.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  6. #96
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    And that is punished in the market.
    Normal people don't respond very well to market incentives, and in more cases than you'd like market incentives are nonexistent (which is why the US is full of fatass slobs and has a 3% savings rate). In some cases, coercion is required.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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  7. #97
    Senior Member Daedalus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Bullcrap, Africa, India and America were poor as shit before European colonization.
    I call Bullshit on your Bullcrap

    check this Data, presented in a graphical form for easy comparison. Furthermore, look at the time-span corresponding to the colonial era, and the shift in the Global GDP.

    It's really shocking just how wrong some of the long held perceptions about the rest of the world are huh?





    Share of GDP: China, India, Japan, Latin America, Western Europe, United States — Visualizing Economics
    Extraverted - 25 Introverted - 75
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  8. #98
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    I do not see exactly how that graph makes Aleksei's statement false.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  9. #99
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Again, currency is nothing but trade lubricant. It's how much they produce that matters.
    In an ideal world... yes.

    In reality? No.

    Whot do banks PRODUCE? Nothing. Whot about the service industry? Nothing. Lawyers? Real estate agents? Government? The military? Oh yeah, NOTHING.

    These account for probably 3/4 of the USA's actual 'money'... they don't actually "produce" very much. Same with most first world countries these days, with the possible exception of canada with a ton of natural resources and too few people and too small a military to chew through as much, but even then, the production is low.

    In a country like china or india? Their production values are a far larger % of their total capital.

    They are significantly still far weaker monitarily, but really, at some point we're going to have to admit to ourselves here, that we don't really 'produce' very much of anything... alot of it's just money being passed back and forth between different people without anything actually being MADE. No natural resources created or acquired, nothing built or constructed, it just is the same as if two people handed money back and forth between each other but increased the amount traded by 10% each time. Eventually... someone's going to ask for that money and whot it's actually worth, whot it represents, which is material value... and people are going to realize... we don't actually have anything to back it up.

    If the dollar collapses, we have very low resources to pay with otherwise. Most people who own gold, silver, or precious metals don't actually have "anything" but a note CLAIMING they have some. And yet, they still pay 'storage fees' to maintain their precious... nothing.

    It's someday going to pop, and we will have nothing to back up the imaginary money which has been self inflating through nil production.

    How much that is produced really doesn't matter at all... at least not right now. When it all comes crashing down, THEN it will matter. But not right now. Right now yeu can agree to hold onto someone's money for awhile, and charge them for the privilege to do so, and hand them back less than they gave yeu. Yeu just got money from artificial interest... nothing was made. Until that changes, or at least doesn't cover the vast majority of the finances that move about on a daily basis, production value just doesn't mean much of anything.

  10. #100
    Senior Member Daedalus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    I do not see exactly how that graph makes Aleksei's statement false.

    Argh, i quoted a few lines more than i should have. my bad

    my reply was to this line in particular

    Bullcrap, Africa, India and America were poor as shit before European colonization.
    Extraverted - 25 Introverted - 75
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    ______________________________________


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