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  1. #41
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    The overall big picture of the culture. America is ESTJ starting to lean ESTP.

    Example of ISTJ culture: England.

    NF cultures: France, Russia, Japan.

    We were just talking about this in vent last night.
    Right, I don't necessarily even disagree. I'm just saying that if you aren't going by the statistics, then it's kind of nebulous and hard to determine. I think the country appears more extraverted because extraverts show themselves more. There are enough extraverts to give it that feel even though they are fewer in number. I can accept the idea of the US as being ESTJ or ESTP, or ESTJ heading towards ESTP, but ESFJ is a little harder to accept, except maybe in some areas of the south.
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    I think the type really has changed over time too.

    1776-1790s = INTJ (Stong libertarian ideals, individualism, and desire to build something new that works)
    1860s = ESTP (north) vs. ENTJ (south)
    1920s = ENTP (roaring twenties, a time of great inovation and experiementation)
    1930s = INFP (great depression, a time of great sadness and idealization about the future)
    1940s = ISTJ (isolationist country stirred into a war machine)
    1950s = ESTJ (ruled by strong, conservative forces)
    1960s = ENFP (Love and peace baby)
    1970s = ENFJ (women's movement and recession)
    1980s = INTP (apathetic nation with focus on education)
    1990s = ENTP (roaring 90's and the Clinton fiasco)
    pre 9-11 GWB years = ESFJ
    post 9-11 = ESTJ
    If I had to type America I would agree with Kiddo here.

  3. #43
    Senior Member mochajava's Avatar
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    Is there an INFJ country? I wonder what that society would look like. Buenos Aires?

  4. #44
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    People say Japan is currently INFJ.

    I think Russian culture at one point was INFJ, but through copying the U.S./Westernization has become decidedly less so.

  5. #45
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    How can the culture be anything but the people it's made up of?

    ESFJ is one of the more common types, but not dominant. ESTJ is number 3 I think, followed by ISTP and then ESFJ.
    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    Right, I don't necessarily even disagree. I'm just saying that if you aren't going by the statistics, then it's kind of nebulous and hard to determine. I think the country appears more extraverted because extraverts show themselves more. There are enough extraverts to give it that feel even though they are fewer in number. I can accept the idea of the US as being ESTJ or ESTP, or ESTJ heading towards ESTP, but ESFJ is a little harder to accept, except maybe in some areas of the south.
    The thing to realize is that a culture is influenced more by its leaders and those in power than anything else. So, the fact that there are a lot of ISFJs - it's not that it isn't unimportant, because it is - but it isn't as important as who is in charge.

    Kiddo's post is actually pretty interesting. Notice that early on in American history, he claims the culture is INTJ (by the way, Jefferson and John Adams were Ni doms I believe). This makes sense. The INTJ culture would be independent, innovative and pioneering. It is perfect for a newly created nation. I wonder why/how the type would flip flop around so much over time though. It seems a little bi-polar or something.

    After reflecting further, I think ESTJ is right. It fits. If the US were intuitive, it would be more proactive, forward looking, and incisive.

    The ESTP thing - that is interesting. I think Bush was probably an SP, and we seem to have had a few (or at least a couple) of presidents over the last 20 years or so that are Ps, so it makes some sense. TJ still dominates the C suite in Corporate America though and that has some influence. What is Wall Street? SP?

    Marm - any thoughts on why you think this? It's an interesting hypothesis.

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  6. #46
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    The ESTP thing - that is interesting. I think Bush was probably an SP, and we seem to have had a few (or at least a couple) of presidents over the last 20 years or so that are Ps, so it makes some sense..
    After reading his new autobiography (got it as a gift) I can say with nearly 100% certainty he is ESJ. On the T/F divide, it's a little hard to say. He has a clear value and respect for facts and studies, but he seems to be more about "compassion" than most ESTJs. Either way, he shows a very different personality from what he displayed on TV and public speeches.
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    The thing to realize is that a culture is influenced more by its leaders and those in power than anything else. So, the fact that there are a lot of ISFJs - it's not that it isn't unimportant, because it is - but it isn't as important as who is in charge.

    Kiddo's post is actually pretty interesting. Notice that early on in American history, he claims the culture is INTJ (by the way, Jefferson and John Adams were Ni doms I believe). This makes sense. The INTJ culture would be independent, innovative and pioneering. It is perfect for a newly created nation. I wonder why/how the type would flip flop around so much over time though. It seems a little bi-polar or something.

    After reflecting further, I think ESTJ is right. It fits. If the US were intuitive, it would be more proactive, forward looking, and incisive.

    The ESTP thing - that is interesting. I think Bush was probably an SP, and we seem to have had a few (or at least a couple) of presidents over the last 20 years or so that are Ps, so it makes some sense. TJ still dominates the C suite in Corporate America though and that has some influence. What is Wall Street? SP?

    Marm - any thoughts on why you think this? It's an interesting hypothesis.
    I just think American mainstream culture is becoming much more Se, almost ridiculously and embarrassingly so, like it's out of wack with the exploitation and reality TV...not that being uptight deluded conservatives is sooo much better. People seem to be less and less obedient and cooperative and are starting to do things like take semi-automatic weapons into their own hands. I mean, do people really NEED semi-automatic weapons? Someone already touched on this a few posts ago.

    Our culture also appears embarrassingly undereducated compared to other 1st world (and even some 2nd world) countries. Not that ESTPs are all undereducated but their is an association with SP rejecting formal education, much more so than SJ.

  8. #48
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    After reading his new autobiography (got it as a gift) I can say with nearly 100% certainty he is ESJ. On the T/F divide, it's a little hard to say. He has a clear value and respect for facts and studies, but he seems to be more about "compassion" than most ESTJs. Either way, he shows a very different personality from what he displayed on TV and public speeches.
    I saw a movie about him on the campaign trail. He's actually a very funny guy. He seemed SP to me in that movie but then I haven't read the book.

    Edit: One could argue that after 9/11, the US became a paranoid INTJ for a period of time

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  9. #49
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I just think American mainstream culture is becoming much more Se, almost ridiculously and embarrassingly so, like it's out of wack with the exploitation and reality TV...not that being uptight deluded conservatives is sooo much better. People seem to be less and less obedient and cooperative and are starting to do things like take semi-automatic weapons into their own hands. I mean, do people really NEED semi-automatic weapons? Someone already touched on this a few posts ago.

    Our culture also appears embarrassingly undereducated compared to other 1st world (and even some 2nd world) countries. Not that ESTPs are all undereducated but their is an association with SP rejecting formal education, much more so than SJ.
    I think pretty much anybody would agree with this, particularly the education part. It's sad to see america heading that way. 1950s style tight-assery is way better than the cluelessness and hedonism you see today, at least in my opinion.
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  10. #50
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Edit: One could argue that after 9/11, the US became a paranoid INTJ for a period of time
    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9bSrjv8BDs&playnext=1&list=PLDDAB17B789F7 90A7&index=54"]The Government![/YOUTUBE]
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