User Tag List

First 311121314 Last

Results 121 to 130 of 134

  1. #121
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILE Ti
    Posts
    3,644

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Reactionary in what sense?
    Overall Americans are far more religious than in other developed nations (in the UK the non religious make up more than 40% of the population, and in most of Western Europe atheism is the norm), as well as very concerned with traditions and social norms. Americans are, in fact, downright prudish, which is why for example standards for TV nudity and language are tighter in the US than Europe.

    And why does this support your argument? Why couldn't that just be inferior Fi?
    It could, but you keep harking back exactly to the UK being traditionalist as your proof (your one and only piece of evidence it seems) that the UK is an Si nation. So if the UK is S for this reason, so is the US.

    Basically, you painted yourself into this corner.

    What the US is better known for is being possibly the most innovative and dynamic society in the world.
    It's actually not known for that, no. It used to be, but nowadays Germany and Japan have overtaken the US (especially Japan).
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Teacher (Idyllic), ESE-IEI (Si-ESFj), SLue|I|, Sanguine-Melancholy
    Sage, True Neutral (Chaotic Good), Type III Anti-Hero
    Inventive > Artistic > Leisurely > Dramatic
    7w6 > 4w3 > 9w8, weakside sp/so

    Dark Worker (Sacrificing)
    Freewheeling Designer

    Hayekian Asshole


  2. #122
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/so
    Posts
    8,161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Overall Americans are far more religious than in other developed nations...
    And?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    ...as well as very concerned with traditions and social norms.
    Ever read all the literature about America being essentially ahistorical?

    Apparently not...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Americans are, in fact, downright prudish, which is why for example standards for TV nudity and language are tighter in the US than Europe.
    Once again: so?

    None of this points to ESTJ over ENTJ.

    These are just values...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    It could, but you keep harking back exactly to the UK being traditionalist as your proof...
    And a very relevant point it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    So if the UK is S for this reason, so is the US.
    Wrong.

    The issue is that a tremendous part of the English consciousness is taken up in traditionalist thinking.

    Hence, why they always think their football team will actually do well in the World Cup.

    Not because of anything current and real, but because of things past.

    "Because WE INVENTED IT!!!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Basically, you painted yourself into this corner.
    This corner you speak of is a figment of your imagination.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    It's actually not known for that, no. It used to be, but nowadays Germany and Japan have overtaken the US (especially Japan).
    :zzz:

    And, Mr. Harking Upon Proof: where is your proof for this? Other than that this is what Aleksei thinks?

    Please, show me all the highly innovative Japanese companies who are beating the crap out of their US counterparts...

    Making creepy, sexualized fembots for horny Japanese men does not count as highly innovative...



    (Which is not to take due credit away from other nations and their innovation, which is admirable and respectable.)

  3. #123
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILE Ti
    Posts
    3,644

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    And?
    And that's a sign of traditionalism. Is that not what this is about?

    Ever read all the literature about America being essentially ahistorical?
    What literature? America was effectively self-governed until 1760, when the British government stepped in. Before then, it was steeped in the common law traditions - similar to the Anglo-Saxon monarchies of old, wherein little central power was exercised over the people. The Revolution itself was to restore this self-rule (so, no Ni there either...). Jefferson made repeated reference to this "Saxon tradition." Moreover, the groups of the respective colonies that governed them were all deeply rooted in the Bible - the Puritans, the Quakers, the Virginian Episcopalians. The Puritans especially, who formed Northeastern culture. And the formation of the Republic was rooted in Athenian and Roman republicanism, many of the founders being Romanophiles.

    Once again: so?

    None of this points to ESTJ over ENTJ.

    These are just values...
    Values steeped in tradition. Ergo, Si + Fi as opposed to merely Fi.

    And a very relevant point it is.
    The problem is, you dodged every point about the UK breaking from tradition. In the poor laws, in the formation of the Empire, in Darwinism, in eugenics, in Newtonian physics, the first train, the Luddite movement during the industrial revolution and even the Industrial Revolution itself (which originated in Britain) - all key examples of the UK innovating rather than looking to the past. The UK has never had a past focus, unlike, say, Germany which has constantly historically looked back to past reichs. Indeed, even the UK's legal system was a break from tradition - common law breaking from the old Roman civil law.

    The issue is that a tremendous part of the English consciousness is taken up in traditionalist thinking.

    Hence, why they always think their football team will actually do well in the World Cup.

    Not because of anything current and real, but because of things past.

    "Because WE INVENTED IT!!!"
    So... uhm... being patriotic about your football team is evidently evidence of Si? And again you dodge the numerous examples of the UK breaking from tradition.

    And, Mr. Harking Upon Proof: where is your proof for this? Other than that this is what Aleksei thinks?

    Please, show me all the highly innovative Japanese companies who are beating the crap out of their US counterparts...

    Making creepy, sexualized fembots for horny Japanese men does not count as highly innovative...
    The auto industry is the most handy and notorious example, but Japanese industry is kicking the shit out of the US in pretty much everything from electronics to shipbuilding. The US industry is, in fact, in decline and has been for the past 40 years (in that period, over 40,000 factories have closed shop permanently).
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Teacher (Idyllic), ESE-IEI (Si-ESFj), SLue|I|, Sanguine-Melancholy
    Sage, True Neutral (Chaotic Good), Type III Anti-Hero
    Inventive > Artistic > Leisurely > Dramatic
    7w6 > 4w3 > 9w8, weakside sp/so

    Dark Worker (Sacrificing)
    Freewheeling Designer

    Hayekian Asshole


  4. #124
    violaine
    Guest

    Default

    The UK isn't traditional. I think of them as ethically progressive with a respect for individuality, with imperial roots. Very concerned with fairness. I think that may largely apply to England at the very least.

  5. #125
    Sniffles
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    And that's a sign of traditionalism. Is that not what this is about?
    Religiousity isn't necessarily a sign of traditionalism. Much of America's religious "tradition" was founded upon Low-Church dissident and radical sects that rejected the traditionalism of High-Church institutions - take the Puritains as the most famous example.

  6. #126
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILE Ti
    Posts
    3,644

    Default

    Puritan tradition was rooted in their reading of the Bible. If the Low-Church groups rejected the Bible outright, yes, it'd be non-traditionalist. As it stands, since it's rooted in their interpretation of one old book chronicling events in ancient Judea, it's not.

    An actually good example of a non-traditionalist religion is Unitarian Universalism (ENFJ).
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Teacher (Idyllic), ESE-IEI (Si-ESFj), SLue|I|, Sanguine-Melancholy
    Sage, True Neutral (Chaotic Good), Type III Anti-Hero
    Inventive > Artistic > Leisurely > Dramatic
    7w6 > 4w3 > 9w8, weakside sp/so

    Dark Worker (Sacrificing)
    Freewheeling Designer

    Hayekian Asshole


  7. #127
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Te
    Posts
    1,387

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    It's actually not known for that, no. It used to be, but nowadays Germany and Japan have overtaken the US (especially Japan).
    I think you're about 20 years behind on that. The japanese era ended a long time ago.

    What major innovations have come out of Japan in recent years?

    Edit: I noticed your entry about factories closing. You do recognize that that's true worldwide? Also, that the US produces more now than it ever has in the past? (even if with fewer workers) It's interesting to note than on the automotive front, US cars are improving dramatically. Ford in particular. Bad management causes big issues, regardless of the general innovativeness of the culture.

    Do you know that japanese GDP, adjusted for inflation, has actually decreased since the 90s?
    You lose.

    _______

    RCOEI
    Melancholic-Choleric
    Respectful Leader

    Johari Window|Nohari Window

  8. #128
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILE Ti
    Posts
    3,644

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    I noticed your entry about factories closing. You do recognize that that's true worldwide?
    Manufacturing output is growing on the net worldwide.

    Also, that the US produces more now than it ever has in the past? (even if with fewer workers)
    False. By official statistics manufacturing has, in nominal terms, been more or less stagnant since 1971 (and has as such declined from 1/3 of GDP to around 12%). In real terms this actually means a net decline, as manufacturing figures count imported manufacturing components as adding value domestically (which means they're calculated double for output).

    It's interesting to note than on the automotive front, US cars are improving dramatically. Ford in particular. Bad management causes big issues, regardless of the general innovativeness of the culture.
    Oh American culture is quite innovative, I'm not disputing that. It just no longer has the highest output of technological innovation in the world.

    Do you know that japanese GDP, adjusted for inflation, has actually decreased since the 90s?
    I have no evidence to back this up (it's a hunch), but I'm pretty sure Japan is outright lying about their GDP statistics, to prevent the West from imposing protectionist measures against them. There's no logical reason whatsoever for Japan's economic stagnation.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Teacher (Idyllic), ESE-IEI (Si-ESFj), SLue|I|, Sanguine-Melancholy
    Sage, True Neutral (Chaotic Good), Type III Anti-Hero
    Inventive > Artistic > Leisurely > Dramatic
    7w6 > 4w3 > 9w8, weakside sp/so

    Dark Worker (Sacrificing)
    Freewheeling Designer

    Hayekian Asshole


  9. #129
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    6,707

    Default

    I still say ESFP. We want to believe in our ideals, very very much so, but still, we're too distracted by the shiny/opportunistic to really follow through.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  10. #130

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    I have no evidence to back this up (it's a hunch), but I'm pretty sure Japan is outright lying about their GDP statistics, to prevent the West from imposing protectionist measures against them. There's no logical reason whatsoever for Japan's economic stagnation.
    Interesting.

    UK: ISTJ
    US: ESTJ

Similar Threads

  1. What is Barack Obama's type?
    By Triglav in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 140
    Last Post: 08-03-2014, 01:04 PM
  2. What Is My Sister's Type?
    By FallaciaSonata in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 09-15-2009, 09:37 PM
  3. What expectations about your MBTI type do you not fit?
    By Misty_Mountain_Rose in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 69
    Last Post: 05-29-2009, 09:12 PM
  4. What is this guys personality type?
    By titanguy in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 10-31-2008, 10:35 AM
  5. What is the most paranoid type?
    By Kiddo in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: 10-12-2007, 07:22 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO