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  1. #91
    Ginkgo
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    The thrill of anteaters trumps them all!

  2. #92
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    The old folk never like Conan...



    (I hear his new show sucks, though...)
    He and I are practically the same age, goofball. Lol.

  3. #93
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    The neocon vision was neither Ne nor Si; it was Ni.

    It was an idealistic vision of the future, largely divorced from reality.

    Look at the ranks of the major neocons: disproportionately filled with INTJs.

    And the neocon vision has been the single greatest determinant of American foreign policy since 9/11.
    So? America isn't just defined by Neocon foreign policy. It's defined by the sum of its political stances, its culture, and its history -- few to none of which show any indication of Ni. And of course, that isn't to mention that an argument can be made that Neocons themselves are Si. This policy you keep hammering home isn't the work of anyone in power -- it is the brainchild of a man named Leo Strauss.

    Also, that harking back to the Founding Fathers has far more to do with domestic policy than foreign policy.

    See George Washington's Farewell Address or the Monroe Doctrine for foreign policy views of America's Founding Fathers.
    The Washingtonian and Jeffersonian doctrine has been ignored, to be sure, but Teddy Roosevelt actually cited the Monroe Doctrine in his intervention in Panama. The Monroe Doctrine states that the US reserves the sole right to interfere in the affairs of the Americas, without European involvement. Hard-line Jeffersonians hence actually opposed the Monroe Doctrine, which was the creation of more Whiggish factions of the Democratic-Republican Party (then the only American party, the Federalists having broken up), namely John Quincy Adams. Son of a Federalist President and himself later became a Whig, after the party was formed.

    So... yeah, there's some Si in US foreign policy as well.

    And I ignored it, as your point was as equally irrelevant there as it was above.

    Nor did it deal with the most important fact of all: that England is a traditionalist society.
    How is it traditionalist? England is one of the most hedonistic hellholes in existence, the birthplace, for example, of Ladette culture. While it is somewhat more conservative than most of Western Europe, it is actually far less conservative than the US, with a cumulative rate of professed non-religious people of 45% (versus America's 16%). What's your argument here, that the monarchy's in the news? Newsflash: The UK is, next to Scandinavia, the place that gives least of a shit about its monarchy in all of Europe. The only European nations that actually care about their monarchies are Spain, Monaco, and Liechtenstein - and only Liechtenstein's is empowered.

    Actually, it's completely relevant that pretty much everyone on here thinks you're horrible at typing when we're having a discussion about typing things.
    No it's not. Only the actual merit of my typings is actually relevant, rather than whether everyone else thinks they have merit. Proclaiming that I'm bad at typing doesn't excuse you from actually showing how my typings here are bad -- appeal to popularity is a base logical fallacy.

    Anteaters are cool.
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  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    So? America isn't just defined by Neocon foreign policy. It's defined by the sum of its political stances, its culture, and its history -- few to none of which show any indication of Ni.
    Few to none... except, of course, the defining foreign policy choice of the last decade...

    Or what kiddo said above, and most others agreed to (I didn't necessarily, but found it an interesting notion), that in America's formative years, America was an INTJ.

    I mean: the entire American Experiment? No Ni? Really? You're gunna call that Si, too?

    Or how about what Highlander said: that two of our first three Presidents were INTJs...

    Or the U.S. as a perpetual project aimed at future perfection? The shining City on the Hill...

    No, no Ni whatsoever...


    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    And of course, that isn't to mention that an argument can be made that Neocons themselves are Si.
    Paleocons are far more Si.

    Neocons are for more Ni.

    To dispute this would be retarded.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    This policy you keep hammering home isn't the work of anyone in power -- it is the brainchild of a man named Leo Strauss.
    Trust me, Aleksei, I am well acquainted with Leo Strauss, so no need to inform me of who the man is.

    And the Iraq War was not his brainchild; it was the brainchild of many whom he taught, and others often affiliated with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Ehm... the US is not defined solely by its foreign policy.
    No, but as one of only two global superpowers over the last 60+ years, and the sole global hegemon of the last 20 years, the foreign policy of the last half of that time period is, simply put, rather important.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    How is [England] traditionalist?
    Hmmm... well, let's look at what Adasta, an Englishman, had to say:

    Quote Originally Posted by Adasta View Post
    ...things such as "fair play", politeness, loyalty and a truculent rejection of anything which tramples of our "values" are mainstays of English and, perhaps, Britishness...
    In light of the above, and, more generally, reality, if you can't see why England is a traditionalist culture, which is something pretty much any cultural critic would agree with, well, then, I can't help you.

    And pointing to the decadence of the youth does not change the fact that they are behaving as such within a historically traditionalist culture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    No it's not. Only the actual merit of my typings is actually relevant, rather than whether everyone else thinks they have merit. Proclaiming that I'm bad at typing doesn't excuse you from actually showing how my typings here are bad -- appeal to popularity is a base logical fallacy.
    :zzz:

    And I assume that if everyone around you were telling you that you smelled bad, then it wouldn't actually be because you smelled bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Anteaters are cool.
    Well, at least you're right about one thing...

  5. #95
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Or what kiddo said above, and most others agreed to (I didn't necessarily, but found it an interesting notion), that in America's formative years, America was an INTJ.
    Another appeal to popularity. You love that fallacy, don't you?

    I mean: the entire American Experiment? No Ni? Really? You're gunna call that Si, too?

    Or how about what Highlander said: that two of our first three Presidents were INTJs...
    I'd call Jefferson an INTJ, yes, but America has a considerable degree of Si in its founding - the Founders were heavily inspired by Athenian and early Roman republicanism. Even Jefferson, who in addition to being a Francophile was something of a Romanophile. And no, one of our first three Presidents was an INTJ (Jefferson). Washington was an ISTJ, and Adams was an ENTJ (admittedly still an Ni type, but I'm not disputing the assertion America has/has had Ni leaders).

    Or the U.S. as a perpetual project aimed at future perfection? The shining City on the Hill...

    No, no Ni whatsoever...
    "Shining City on a Hill" was not the words of any Founding Father. It was the words of the Anglo-Irish political theorist Edmund Burke - and he was an ISFJ. He condemned the French Revolution for having no traditional roots, whereas the American Revolution could be called a conservative aristocratic revolution.

    Paleocons are far more Si.

    Neocons are for more Ni.

    To dispute this would be retarded.
    Nice dodge. Neocons derive their ideology from Leo Strauss. It isn't their own vision.

    Trust me, Aleksei, I am well acquainted with Leo Strauss, so no need to inform me of who the man is.

    And the Iraq War was not his brainchild; it was the brainchild of many whom he taught, and others often affiliated with them.
    Who said the Iraq War? Nice job putting words in my mouth. Neoconservative foreign policy WAS his brainchild. The Iraq War was the brainchild of neoconservative foreign policy.

    Unless you're gonna argue that having any original ideas ever is an Ni thing...

    No, but as one of only two global superpowers over the last 60+ years, and the sole global hegemon of the last 20 years, the foreign policy of the last half of that time period is, simply put, rather important.

    In light of the above, and, more generally, reality, if you can't see why England is a traditionalist culture, which is something pretty much any cultural critic would agree with, well, then, I can't help you.

    And pointing to the decadence of the youth does not change the fact that they are behaving as such within a historically traditionalist culture.
    I actually can't. Because for all of Adasta's ramblings about traditional British politeness and sense of fairplay (which I'll concede, does exist - but is that not more Fe than anything? I only call England INTJ because it displays more Te than its considerable Fe), one can also point to things that ran counter to that. The old poor laws and poorhouses. The Luddite movement. The Old Empire as a very institution. The disruptions of British labor unions. Darwinism (orignally fathered by a British man), and subsequently eugenics (which focus on the well-being of the future stock of mankind -- also Ni by definition), which started in Britain. None could be seen as rooted in tradition, but rather a view of how the future should be. And all are rather violent, contradicting that sort of sense of "fair play" whether for better or for worse.

    :zzz:

    And I assume that if everyone around you were telling you that you really smelled bad, then it wouldn't actually be because you really smelled bad?
    So are you disputing that the appeal to popularity is a logical fallacy? If everyone says Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, as they did in 2003, does that mean Iraq actually possessed WMD?
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  6. #96
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    Your post is almost as sloppy as your thinking.

    Fix it, and perhaps I'll teach you some more.

    EDIT: you still have words of mine attributed to yourself.

  7. #97
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    I should make it even sloppier just to piss you off.

    And, my thinking at least doesn't rely on "Oh yeah? Well... X poster thinks that too so it MUST be true."

    Or on the idea that having ideas is an Ni trait by definition...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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  8. #98
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkZC7sqImaM"]Try it - today[/YOUTUBE]

  9. #99
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  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    I should make it even sloppier just to piss you off.

    And, my thinking at least doesn't rely on "Oh yeah? Well... X poster thinks that too so it MUST be true."

    Or on the idea that having ideas is an Ni trait by definition...
    It's called evidence, Aleksei, not the appeal-to-authority logical fallacy.

    In fact, you need to talk to ERM about informal fallacies so you realize how utterly stupid it is to use them the way you do in arguments.

    If I thought you were capable of learning, I'd actually find the link to that thread for you.

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