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  1. #11
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Yeah.

    You've all got to be shitting me.
    On the contrary, it is you who have got to be shitting us. How is involuntary sterilization appropriate for anybody? Incarceration is sufficient.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    OK guys, so if someone neglects or brutalises a kid, pretty much ruining that individuals life and no doubt others, since no one who was messed up to my knowledge by bad parenting keep the aftermath to themselves, they shoud be just able to do it again in nine months? Possibly fathering kids to a bunch of different women who arent capable of looking after them and will inevitably give them up to the state to be looked after?

    There's a lot permitted to spare the feelings of degenerates from the look of things.
    Unfortunately removing the children from the home even if it's at the delivery room is the only ethical option. You should not be able to force someone to undergo involuntary sterilization.

    Instead of teaching bullshit like abstinence to high school kids we should make condoms and birth control more readily available and hopefully people like this will stop having children at such an alarming rate. For many people in impoverished areas birth control and condoms are unaffordable and they certainly aren't covered by crappy health insurance if these people even have any. State sponsored clinics that hand out birth control and condom to poor people like food stamps would really do a lot for reducing these kinds of situations.

  3. #13
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    Hate to agree with Glenn Beck, but I leafed through his book about arguing with idiots, and one of his points was this:

    We require a license to practice a profession.
    We require a license to drive a car.
    But to bring in children into this world, who if not raised properly have a vastly higher societal cost for the programs we need to put in place to catch/correct them/turn them around?

    No license required whatsoever! Have as many kids as you want!

    In this case, I agree with him: if people simply had to be given permission to procreate, a lot of ills in this country would go away quite rapidly.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  4. #14
    Senior Member Rebe's Avatar
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    ^ Yikes. If we go down that path, we might have to control the overpopulation like what China is doing, we might have to deny impoverished families from having more children than they can feed, we might have to prevent mentally ill people from having children - and all this is a bit sketchy. What if the system becomes corrupted, like the social system? I hear the social workers' system is just terrible. Who makes the judgment call of where the line is? Should people vote on this? Should majority's opinion matter the most? Should people with certain genetics/diseases be prevented from having children? There are many levels of abuse - where will the line be?

    I see the logic. But preventive measures is better than such a drastic violation of the right to be in control of our bodies. Teachers in schools should pay closer attention to kids who fit a criteria/profile of abused kids based on psychologists, research, etc. I agree that communities should watch out for each other and teachers plus social workers should take on more responsibility not only for the education of children but also, their mental/emotional health. The government has no right to take away procreation from anyone. The government does have the right to protect citizens and children and there are other measures to be taken. And while it won't catch every abusive parent, it will decrease the number.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebe View Post
    ^ Yikes. If we go down that path, we might have to control the overpopulation like what China is doing, we might have to deny impoverished families from having more children than they can feed, we might have to prevent mentally ill people from having children - and all this is a bit sketchy. What if the system becomes corrupted, like the social system? I hear the social workers' system is just terrible. Who makes the judgment call of where the line is? Should people vote on this? Should majority's opinion matter the most? Should people with certain genetics/diseases be prevented from having children? There are many levels of abuse - where will the line be?

    I see the logic. But preventive measures is better than such a drastic violation of the right to be in control of our bodies. Teachers in schools should pay closer attention to kids who fit a criteria/profile of abused kids based on psychologists, research, etc. I agree that communities should watch out for each other and teachers plus social workers should take on more responsibility not only for the education of children but also, their mental/emotional health. The government has no right to take away procreation from anyone. The government does have the right to protect citizens and children and there are other measures to be taken. And while it won't catch every abusive parent, it will decrease the number.
    I basically feel that the 10/90 rule is at play here (or something along the same vein). The bottom 10% are responsible for using up far too many federal resources. So, if we could somehow control the population down there so that we don't have welfare queens who have a bunch of kids who grow up to be juvenile delinquents and do similar things as their parents, I think we'd be a lot better off.

    Granted, all class levels of society have their problems, but if we could do away with the parasites and work upwards until, as Elon Musk said (more or less), the intelligent can outbreed the imbeciles, then we will have a much brighter tomorrow.

    After all..."beware the power of stupid people in large groups"?

    Why not enact a law that allows us to actively cut down the size of these groups?
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  6. #16
    Senior Member Rebe's Avatar
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    Rich, well off, well educated CEOs can also be extremely stupid, not just janitors. Example: George W. Bush. Plus, we need the working class. ^ Totally disturbed.

  7. #17
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    We need the working class. Not the welfare-queens-spawning-future-juveniles-and-criminals class.

    And no doubt about rich CEOs can be extremely stupid. Everyone of any class can be. But somehow, I think it's far more likely to happen when one has less education and grows up in a slum.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  8. #18
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    I can definitely see the logic. People talk about the right to be in control of our bodies. But that person has already violated that same right of another person(s) by their behaviour. It would be easy to say that yes, most definitely, sterilize, lock them up and throw away the key, seems like an easy fix. But sterilization or even incarceration doesn't really reform anybody. Sure, there are exceptions, but unless something more extensive is done, like psychological treatment, these people are on a downward spiral because the problems that make them behave in such a way towards children are probably not addressed.

    I also agree with Rebe that there are many factors here, and once you start with it, where would be the line?

  9. #19
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Should we chop the hands off of people who steal, too?

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