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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringstheory View Post
    I do...well, learning about it, obviously i wasn't there :P but i don't see how that's any proof that things are better now (or even if that means things will improve and everything will be fine) so if you could elaborate that'd be great.



    I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean. Of course that's how it works, especially if you start out already having privilege and capital to expand. And if it continues the way it's going there will be fewer and fewer with more and more the capital, just as intended. They will continue to make things that will for the most part benefit them and theirs and by whipping out their pocket books continue keeping elected officials from ever getting anything done. The rich are getting richer, and i'd love to see what they've been "getting done" that helps anyone except themselves.



    Of course it would be the stupid now, but you think it will somehow get better within the next 25-75 years? If people are already beginning to get restless (like the tea-party movement, which i find highly amusing), I'm inclined to think you can't stop that kind of momentum. Hell the Republican Party has basically fed the Tea Party up until now, and now they've created a monster, it'll be interesting to see what kind of influence they have come 2012.

    The divide between the rich and the poor continues to grow, and with the way that education is going, soon enough you're going to have a mass of people who, "stupid" or not, are fed up living in squalor while it's business as usual for successful capitalists. America isn't special, if every other other empire that's ever existed has fallen then it will too. Who knows if it will be due to a proletariat uprising, that's just my opinion as to what could happen in the future if things continue the way they do, but it will fall.
    The tea party is hardly big. They're simply the loudest. They're a right wing fringe that are going to completely polarize the nation between the progressives who go to the good universities and make something of themselves, and the tea partiers who think they know everything and truly know nothing.

    The right wing ideas are phenomenal ideologically and a lot better than all the spread-the-wealth crap the left likes to do. However, the right wing implementation is so hilariously bad that the unintended consequences just make a mockery of whatever they intended to do. Case in point?

    Dubya says "He believes businesses should be allowed to fail"

    Then because of the right wing deregulation, Hank Paulson gets dealt such a crap hand that even despite heroic effort and preventing us from a second great depression, he's probably still seen as another villain of the Bush administration. Perhaps his background as GS's CEO has something to do with it, but back then, he was doing what was good for his firm, and indeed, it was phenomenal for Goldman.

    As to the "more capital in the pockets of fewer", that's always been a lie. I was watching Charlie Rose the other day, and he was quoting Bill Gates, and when he asked him:

    "What's your biggest fear?"

    "That there are two kids in a garage that are going to come up with an idea that we don't understand and put microsoft out of business practically overnight."

    Now granted, I'm not an MIT/Stanford CS grad (if only!)--I'm more of a numbers guy (operations research/statistics)--but the same sort of philosophy applies--have an idea? Implement it, build a prototype, present to VCs, get funding for your startup, grow, monetize, then sell your company to a bigger one (EG Google) or in a more fortunate scenario, have your company shoot through the roof and become the next household name over the next couple of years.

    Here's the thing--we here in the states have the smartest people coming in--we have the most amazing universities in the world, and they are never at a shortage of people. What the tea partiers are angry about, IMO, is that it isn't them that's making the fortunes. Instead, it's someone else out there--these best and the brightest--who aren't from around their areas.

    And that's all we see on the news--the stupid and the loud electing officials that will pander to them, and suddenly, coupled with our current economic times, everyone thinks the USA is heading downward. Hello...the USA is the culmination of the world's best and the brightest. Sure, while some people and some ways of life may be going the way of the dodo (the steady and secure 9 to 5 with a guaranteed pension and social security and other entitlements), true capitalism is here to stay, and America has mastered it, as Wall Street and Hollywood and Silicon Valley can attest to.

    Next step is to revitalize the manufacturing sectors by producing solar plants and wind plants and electric vehicles to wean ourselves off of oil and give the big F U to all of the oil barons in the middle east.

    Basically, I feel that America is going as the NASDAQ is going. The NASDAQ I feel is the strongest of the indices, since it's heavily tech based, and technology is the one field that will grow and evolve, and odds are, will keep driving the USA forward.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  2. #52
    Senior Member Chunes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    if US bankrupts that will be the end of Capitalism.
    The United States is not capitalist.
    "If you would convince a man that he does wrong, do right. But do not care to convince him. Men will believe what they see. Let them see."
    Thoreau

  3. #53
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    A few predictions I will give here, which is my personal opinion only, but with all data and current events in mind.

    From the technical analysis of our stock markets, comparing previous data of a few years ago and the great depression...plus the words of Gerald Celente, I came to this amateur conclusion - This summer and early autumn we'll see the final bounce of our economy, and around september to november we will fall down from peak bounce...with the irreversable decline.
    In the 6 months following, our economies will deteriorate untill all mainstream finally admits that we're in another Great Depression. This will be of a more horrible magnitude then the one of the 30's, considering the foundations of our economies now - which is in worse shape then we had almost 80 years ago.

    I shall gamble, my e-peen value =]

  4. #54
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chunes View Post
    The United States is not capitalist.
    Yeah, Yeah and the USSR wasnt socialist in the opinion of any socialists you asked either.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Yeah, Yeah and the USSR wasnt socialist in the opinion of any socialists you asked either.
    I think you need to review the definition of Capitalism once more :p

  6. #56
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post
    The tea party is hardly big. They're simply the loudest. They're a right wing fringe that are going to completely polarize the nation between the progressives who go to the good universities and make something of themselves, and the tea partiers who think they know everything and truly know nothing.

    The right wing ideas are phenomenal ideologically and a lot better than all the spread-the-wealth crap the left likes to do. However, the right wing implementation is so hilariously bad that the unintended consequences just make a mockery of whatever they intended to do. Case in point?

    Dubya says "He believes businesses should be allowed to fail"

    Then because of the right wing deregulation, Hank Paulson gets dealt such a crap hand that even despite heroic effort and preventing us from a second great depression, he's probably still seen as another villain of the Bush administration. Perhaps his background as GS's CEO has something to do with it, but back then, he was doing what was good for his firm, and indeed, it was phenomenal for Goldman.

    As to the "more capital in the pockets of fewer", that's always been a lie. I was watching Charlie Rose the other day, and he was quoting Bill Gates, and when he asked him:

    "What's your biggest fear?"

    "That there are two kids in a garage that are going to come up with an idea that we don't understand and put microsoft out of business practically overnight."

    Now granted, I'm not an MIT/Stanford CS grad (if only!)--I'm more of a numbers guy (operations research/statistics)--but the same sort of philosophy applies--have an idea? Implement it, build a prototype, present to VCs, get funding for your startup, grow, monetize, then sell your company to a bigger one (EG Google) or in a more fortunate scenario, have your company shoot through the roof and become the next household name over the next couple of years.

    Here's the thing--we here in the states have the smartest people coming in--we have the most amazing universities in the world, and they are never at a shortage of people. What the tea partiers are angry about, IMO, is that it isn't them that's making the fortunes. Instead, it's someone else out there--these best and the brightest--who aren't from around their areas.

    And that's all we see on the news--the stupid and the loud electing officials that will pander to them, and suddenly, coupled with our current economic times, everyone thinks the USA is heading downward. Hello...the USA is the culmination of the world's best and the brightest. Sure, while some people and some ways of life may be going the way of the dodo (the steady and secure 9 to 5 with a guaranteed pension and social security and other entitlements), true capitalism is here to stay, and America has mastered it, as Wall Street and Hollywood and Silicon Valley can attest to.

    Next step is to revitalize the manufacturing sectors by producing solar plants and wind plants and electric vehicles to wean ourselves off of oil and give the big F U to all of the oil barons in the middle east.

    Basically, I feel that America is going as the NASDAQ is going. The NASDAQ I feel is the strongest of the indices, since it's heavily tech based, and technology is the one field that will grow and evolve, and odds are, will keep driving the USA forward.
    I agree with you, except for the part about America only having the world's best and brightest + what to say against a secure 9 to 5 job ?

    I read a couple days ago an inside report on the conference on climatic change in Kopenhagen and it said that Obama seemed to have switched sides during the meeting. First he was all with Europe and their plans and then before he left, he talked the whole idea down and disappeared with no real hope for the treaty left at all. The report I read stated that he went a personal meeting during his stay that included China aswell. I already heard that China has bought their fair share of american corporations but that much I didnt know.

    I dont know for sure, if this connection I draw here can be drawn at all, but to me it was one of the first times I noticed too something is rotten in America.

    I personally think there is a war of ideology waging, between cowboy capitalism and a more responsible capitalism. The question is if an economy should be the tool for all people to lead a decent life or if it should be used as a tool to make the big money quick, accepting a lot of victims on the path. This question then is: should the state regulate the economy more and if yes how much regulation is still healthy.

    In Germany we have for example in the production sector a whole bunch of small companies, of which some only consists of like 5 people, having all sorts of products / projects and ideas running. You talked about the thing that most new companies that arise get bought by a bigger one and the question is if that maybe an innovation showstopper in the long run, because if the companies stay small and in charge of their idea, they may have better potential to develop and go unusual ways.

    A good example is GM, which is called Opel in Germany. Tho they got "rescued" now and can continue their business and tho they changed their chairmans they still suck. Their marketing campaign at the moment is non-existant and while Volkswagen is running a big campaign for the Golf world-soccer championship edition, Opel is sitting around doing nothing. Their share in the market dropped under 20% and that's most probably their next downfall again.

    A company like GM bought many little companies with their ideas and those little companies ideas now are practically wasted, cause the big company sucks.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tantive View Post
    I think you need to review the definition of Capitalism once more :p
    Who's definition? That of pie-in-the-sky free marketeers?

    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I personally think there is a war of ideology waging, between cowboy capitalism and a more responsible capitalism. The question is if an economy should be the tool for all people to lead a decent life or if it should be used as a tool to make the big money quick, accepting a lot of victims on the path. This question then is: should the state regulate the economy more and if yes how much regulation is still healthy.
    I wouldn't classify it as "responsible capitalism" so much as capitalism limited by state controls and/or labor unions. Cowboy capitalism is the default mode when no limitations are imposed.

  8. #58
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I am not sure that I get it ?
    America has one hand around his throat and the other down his pants. Discussing collapse is like some kind of bizarre ravishment fantasy for him.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    America has one hand around his throat and the other down his pants. Discussing collapse is like some kind of bizarre ravishment fantasy for him.
    Ok. I mean there was a language barrier so I wasn't sure that I got it.

  10. #60
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    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se6CPdJH7wM"]Market Signals Near Term CRASH[/YOUTUBE]

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