User Tag List

First 81617181920 Last

Results 171 to 180 of 214

  1. #171
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEI Ni
    Posts
    7,661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    I have known many Americans who go to France and try to speak French and are then mocked. Actually, Americans are some of the best at trying to at least learn some of the language when travelling according to a survey (though they leave the messiest rooms).


    I have yet to talk to one person who has traveled to France who said they only spoke English & refused to try and speak French - most said they attempted French & only spoke English if the person they were speaking with initiated it. I agree it is a massively incorrect stereotype that Americans are arrogant about only speaking English & do not attempt to learn any phrases in the language of the country they are visiting.

    It seems everyone has one story of the loud, arrogant American they encountered once (or more likely heard about - seems hearsay is often the source) and they latch onto it to justify their existing prejudice; meanwhile, they've ignored the countless Americans who do not fit that stereotype, but who disprove it.


    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    I would say to be more specific that the French seem snobby about their *LANGUAGE* which is the a metaphour for culture. If you are learning French and you try to speak with a native French speaker they interrupt you and correct you QUICK with clear distaste or amusement. I've studied a few languages and only with the French have I had these kind of responses. An acquaintance who is fluent in French said she has gotten the response from a native Frenchman "Your French is so good, I thought you were Belgian" The "snobbery" is very subtle but it's there and she caught it.
    I noticed this when studying French also - they can be very nit-picky. My French teacher also told us that French people will be pickier about grammar than English and more likely to correct people. That's considered rude in the US - you get labeled an uptight grammar Nazi, especially if dealing with a non-native English speaker. The French aren't the only ones who nitpick though - I think Americans are actually much more accepting of thick accents & mangling of their language than many other cultures, contrary to the stereotypes.

    So I disagree with people who say that Americans are more or just as rigid about foreign visitors speaking English poorly. In CA, we have TONS of tourists and if they make any attempt to speak English, people usually are very nice to them & don't correct errors. The irritation with Mexicans who don't speak English at all has to do with irritation over illegal immigrants (but I'm not defending nor attacking those views, although I notice most people aren't even irritated with Mexicans as long as they try to speak some English.), which is a very different issue from foreign tourists visiting the US.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  2. #172
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    6,707

    Default

    I think french people is a pretty cool guy, eh make fun of yor accent and doesn't afraid of anything
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  3. #173

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    So I disagree with people who say that Americans are more or just as rigid about foreign visitors speaking English poorly. In CA, we have TONS of tourists and if they make any attempt to speak English, people usually are very nice to them & don't correct errors. The irritation with Mexicans who don't speak English at all has to do with irritation over illegal immigrants (but I'm not defending nor attacking those views, although I notice most people aren't even irritated with Mexicans as long as they try to speak some English.), which is a very different issue from foreign tourists visiting the US.
    I agree with this, especially the distinction drawn between foreign tourists and Mexican immigrants. No one expects a tourist spending a week or two here to learn anything more than a few key phrases, and I've never seen anyone unwilling to help. On the contrary, I think Americans are generally happy to see visitors who are interested in our country. Especially considering our current standing abroad.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

    Johari
    /Nohari

  4. #174
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    2,934

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post


    I have yet to talk to one person who has traveled to France who said they only spoke English & refused to try and speak French - most said they attempted French & only spoke English if the person they were speaking with initiated it. I agree it is a massively incorrect stereotype that Americans are arrogant about only speaking English & do not attempt to learn any phrases in the language of the country they are visiting.

    It seems everyone has one story of the loud, arrogant American they encountered once (or more likely heard about - seems hearsay is often the source) and they latch onto it to justify their existing prejudice; meanwhile, they've ignored the countless Americans who do not fit that stereotype, but who disprove it.
    Let's speak the truth, even if it hurts my American friends.

    YES, American tourists are LOUD and ARROGANT most of the time. I encounter them on a DAILY basis (Since you have a kind of YMCA just a block away from my flat), and it's easy to compare even with Brits, who are much, much, much more polite and tactful.

    90% of American tourists will NEVER EVER even try to speak a few words of French. With them, I immediately have to switch to English.

    I'm sorry. I'm really, really sorry. But let's not talk about fairy tales, and especially tales that flatter the already-hyper-narcissistic American Ego.

    Basically, most native English speakers are monolingual, and only have a very blurry notion of what it really means to master a foreign language.

    I'm sorry, but I don't have this issue when I cross the path of Germans, Dutch people, Italians, Poles, Scandinavians, Spaniards, Portugueses, Greeks and so on. And at last, a majority of European English native speakers seems to realize they're not alone in the universe, since they have often travelled in mainland Europe. And that's why some of them have developped sophisticated coping systems, and hence, can really be nice and polite even when they ask their way. And then, it's almost always pleasure to help them, I would be the first to volunteer.
    But American tourists: NO. They're often so loud and domineering I almost feel sorry for them. I am always tempted to correct them, to make them understand what it means to behave, but then, it would simply be a waste of time.
    Of course, this doesn't mean every American tourist will behave so (in every community, you can encouter shy, subtle or educated people), but once again... well... Even tonight, I met some in the metro, and they were such a caricature. In the crowded metro train, you could only hear them and them alone, just like they were the center of the world.

    How can you explain such a difference between them and their British cousins? Is it really only a sad cultural misunderstanding?
    Last edited by Blackmail!; 06-08-2010 at 07:15 PM.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

    7w8 SCUxI

  5. #175

    Default

    Without entirely excusing the behavior of my compatriots, it should be pointed out that it comes more naturally to learn multiple languages when they are spoken in your sphere of existence. Most Americans would have to travel thousands of miles to encounter people who are not native English speakers. Most Europeans need travel only a fraction of that distance to encounter the same. If different native languages were spoken in California, Texas and New York, Americans would most assuredly be fluently bilingual.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

    Johari
    /Nohari

  6. #176
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    6,707

    Default

    Blackmail, Americans speak so loudly because they are all mostly deaf. It's been like that since the American Civil War.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  7. #177
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    2,934

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Blackmail, Americans speak so loudly because they are all mostly deaf. It's been like that since the American Civil War.
    Sometimes, I'm really wondering if this is really the case.
    If that is so, this is very unfortunate.

    But anyway, I know several American friends that speak with a normal volume. So I know this is possible. Or maybe they have been "Europeanized" too much?
    Or maybe it's Education? (since I don't have this issue with American Academia, which is one of the most accessible and the most talented in the world).

    Usually, when American students come to France thanks to exchange programs, it only takes them a few weeks to adapt, not anything more.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

    7w8 SCUxI

  8. #178
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEI Ni
    Posts
    7,661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Let's speak the truth, even if it hurts my American friends.

    YES, American tourists are LOUD and ARROGANT most of the time. I encounter them on a DAILY basis (Since you have a kind of YMCA just a block away from my flat), and it's easy to compare even with Brits, who are much, much, much more polite and tactful.

    90% of American tourists will NEVER EVER even try to speak a few words of French. With them, I immediately have to switch to English.

    I'm sorry. I'm really, really sorry. But let's not talk about fairy tales, and especially tales that flatter the already-hyper-narcissistic American Ego.

    Basically, most native English speakers are monolingual, and only have a very blurry notion of what it really means to master a foreign language.

    I'm sorry, but I don't have this issue when I cross the path of Germans, Dutch people, Italians, Poles, Scandinavians, Spaniards, Portugueses, Greeks and so on. And at last, a majority of European English native speakers seems to realize they're not alone in the universe, since they have often travelled in mainland Europe. And that's why some of them have developped sophisticated coping systems, and hence, can really be nice and polite even when they ask their way. And then, it's almost always pleasure to help them, I would be the first to volunteer.
    But American tourists: NO. They're often so loud and domineering I almost feel sorry for them. I am always tempted to correct them, to make them understand what it means to behave, but then, it would simply be a waste of time.
    Of course, this doesn't mean every American tourist will behave so (in every community, you can encouter shy, subtle or educated people), but once again... well... Even tonight, I met some in the metro, and they were such a caricature. In the crowded metro train, you could only hear them and them alone, just like they were the center of the world.

    How can you explain such difference from their British cousins? Is it really only a sad cultural misunderstanding?
    This just does not jive with what I hear people say who travel. I have a feeling there is maybe a combo of major bias on your side and general different perspectives on what is rude (ie. loud can be rude, or just different very ideas of what is appropriate - "close talkers" are considered rude in the US, and many French people seem to be "close talkers").

    I find most Brits very loud when they come to the USA actually, and these surveys say that the French are considered the most rude & worst tourists:

    Most Obnoxious Tourists? The French - TIME

    The French top the worst tourist list...again

    ...the study also describes the voyageur français as often unwilling or unable to communicate in foreign languages....

    American tourists fared well in some surprising ways. Despite being notoriously language-limited, for example, they top the list of tourists credited with trying to speak local languages the most.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  9. #179
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    6,707

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Sometimes, I'm really wondering if this is really the case.
    If that is so, this is very unfortunate.

    But anyway, I know several American friends that speak with a normal volume. So I know this is possible. Or maybe they have been "Europeanized" too much?
    Or maybe it's Education? (since I don't have this issue with American Academia, which is one of the most accessible and the most talented in the world).
    I would say your friends have been Europeanized. If they went back to the states, it would be very difficult for them to be heard.

    Things in the United States are generally done at a very high volume. Speaking, lawn-mowing, engines, movies, blah blah blah. If you meet an American in Europe who's been there for less than about a month they are still going to be speaking very loudly. In fact, they probably can't hear you.

    I do not really see anything about how this has to do with education. Speaking loudly is an American trait. If everyone does it and you speak softly, you're not going to be heard.

    We also tend to get louder if we're excited. Who knows, maybe they're just happy to be in France.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  10. #180
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    2,934

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post

    We also tend to get louder if we're excited. Who knows, maybe they're just happy to be in France.
    Who knows?

    The sad thing is that when some Americans know how to turn the volume off, and when we start discussing, they're often amazed to discover that French and American cultures are very close (same individualism and many other similar traits, for instance). Much closer than with any other European country, UK included.

    That could explain the rivalry, as well as the mutual fascination and admiration we both have for each other.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

    7w8 SCUxI

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 02-16-2017, 10:02 AM
  2. Why are some people softly spoken...
    By Synapse in forum Health and Fitness
    Replies: 52
    Last Post: 03-19-2011, 04:20 PM
  3. Why are N people usually more liberal then S people?
    By Virtual ghost in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 75
    Last Post: 02-04-2009, 09:43 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO