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  1. #281
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    So you did really believe your little story!?

    Sorry, I honestly thought you were trolling because I didn't think anyone alive could believe that.
    Well, I'm not sure the last person to touch the Wikipedia article was completely nonpartisan either, but I am always willing to entertain the notion that I've been misinformed.

  2. #282
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    You could always read any history book instead of Wikipedia.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  3. #283
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    You could always read any history book instead of Wikipedia.
    You must be a student. My time online is all time stolen from my employer, and comes in five- and ten-minute bites. My days are scheduled from 6:15 AM to 10:30 PM, and what time isn't taken by my job is taken by my family, or by tasks at home.

    That's just the way it is.

  4. #284
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    I've lived nearly every day of my life on stolen, ethnically cleansed land.

    If what is left of the people we removed started shooting missiles into our cities, their slow destruction would become much faster and louder.

    It's a little hypocritical for us to tell Israel they can't do the same thing because they are getting such a late start.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  5. #285
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    You must be a student. My time online is all time stolen from my employer, and comes in five- and ten-minute bites. My days are scheduled from 6:15 AM to 10:30 PM, and what time isn't taken by my job is taken by my family, or by tasks at home.

    That's just the way it is.
    Actually I'm at work right now. Most people work, very few are as deluded about Israel/Palestine as you. No excuses.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  6. #286
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    Actually I'm at work right now. Most people work, very few are as deluded about Israel/Palestine as you. No excuses.
    Eh. I'm about five books behind on my reading list. I'll slip some pro-Palestinian propaganda into the next slot if it'll make you happy.

    The Israelis are not going to hand over their national sovereignty to Hamas. Shriek all you like, it won't happen. Looking for moral justification? It's irrelevant. The people of Israel are not going to give themselves up to Hamas's sense of goodwill and fair play voluntarily. They'll have to be forced to do so at gunpoint.

    The land was conquered and now it's occupied; what's stopping you from taking it back?

    I mean, aside from the fact that the Zionist state has kicked the asses of everyone they've ever met on a battlefield?

  7. #287
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Eh. I'm about five books behind on my reading list. I'll slip some pro-Palestinian propaganda into the next slot if it'll make you happy.

    The Israelis are not going to hand over their national sovereignty to Hamas. Shriek all you like, it won't happen. Looking for moral justification? It's irrelevant. The people of Israel are not going to give themselves up to Hamas's sense of goodwill and fair play voluntarily. They'll have to be forced to do so at gunpoint.

    The land was conquered and now it's occupied; what's stopping you from taking it back?

    I mean, aside from the fact that the Zionist state has kicked the asses of everyone they've ever met on a battlefield?
    Ok, we just keep going round with the circular arguments.

    If the "justification" is so irrelevant why are you so keen to justify it? Or at least to keep making your point? If your only appeal is to brute force, why bother keeping up the pretense of debate?

    Sorry but you make no sense and you ignore the fact that we've already had this conversation.

    Is this about Israel/Palestine or about your pride?

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I've lived nearly every day of my life on stolen, ethnically cleansed land.

    If what is left of the people we removed started shooting missiles into our cities, their slow destruction would become much faster and louder.

    It's a little hypocritical for us to tell Israel they can't do the same thing because they are getting such a late start.
    So in other words, the Paesltianians should have to put upw ith ethnic cleansing, because the europeans did it to the native Americans?

    Sorry I can't quite see that reasoning.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  8. #288
    The Unwieldy Clawed One Falcarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    ...by allowing themselves to be overrun, displaced, and exiled again at best, murdered in the street at worst.

    They're not going to do that voluntarily.

    The Palestinian refugees are the ones that fled from the 1948 war, thinking that the Jewish-held territory would be quickly overrun. As we know, it didn't turn out that way.

    The Palestinians that didn't flee got Israeli citizenship; the ones that did had sided with the enemy, and weren't allowed back. Time has not decreased the validity of this decision.
    Purposely or not you have distorted history.

    The vast amount of Palestinians were forcibly remove, be it by other Arab nations but also by Israel. Around 700,000 Palestinian Arabs in total were expelled. Israel almost certainly expelled at least 300,000 of them and the rest were either forced by Arab nations or were quite rightly scared to death of another Deir Yassin massacre happening. If Palestinians left their home for even a few days they had them stolen, even if they were still in the same area or did so involuntarily.


    As for the other Palestinians who never left, the vast majority had their movement restricted and land stolen despite Israeli legislation declaring them the owners; for example, Al-Ghabisiyya and Iqrit citizens. At the time all an Isreali-Arab had to do to get their citizenship striped is enter a country deemed an enemy state. For example, if an Isreali-Arab went to visit a terminally ill relative in the West Bank or Gaza Strip they would have their citizenship revoked.

    Oberon, if a Bedouin were to read you comments above, I am more than convinced they would think it was some sort of sick twisted joke since they are without doubt the most loyal group to Israel but the worse treated citizens in Israel. The Bedouin community of Israel is like what the Gurkha community are to the British, even if they fight for their adopted country they are still treated worse than the lowest of the low of the 'indigenous'. If it wasn't so tragic the hypocrite's would be funny, and that is coming from a Briton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
    Oh our 3rd person reference to ourselves denotes nothing more than we realize we are epic characters on the forum.

    Narcissism, plain and simple.

  9. #289
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    So in other words, the Paesltianians should have to put upw ith ethnic cleansing, because the europeans did it to the native Americans?

    Sorry I can't quite see that reasoning.
    They shouldn't have to put up with it, but Americans don't really have the moral high ground here and may not be particularly sympathetic, for that and other reasons.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  10. #290
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcarius View Post
    [screed I probably deserve]
    If you keep reading, you'll find that I corrected myself substantially in a subsequent post.

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