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  1. #271
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    Let's put it this way. If a side chooses to advance their position through violence, that is their right. But they should not complain if the other retaliates with maximal force and they end up on the losing end. It's only fair.

  2. #272
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    "Israel withdrew from Gaza almost five years ago. Three years ago, Hamas took over in a military coup. Since then, Israel and Egypt have blockaded Gaza to prevent weapons from reaching Hamas, which has launched missles into Israel and which is commited to the killing of Israelis and the destruction of the state of Israel. Last week, Hamas sympathizers sought to break the blockade. Israel acted to stop them. It has nothing to apologize for. The blockade prevents Hamas, and its backer, Iran, from triggering a larger war from Gaza."(Quote from The Weekly Standard, a conservative magazine).--------Hamas is building an Islamo-Fascist State in Gaza like the one in Iran and what the Taliban used to have. Sooner or later the Israelis are going to have to go in there and wipe them out. The Arabs have taken hatred of Jews to heights that even Hitler would have appreciated. Nobody can hate like an Arab. If Hamas and Arabs in general laid down their weapons there would be no more war. If Israel laid down it's weapons there would be no more Israel.

  3. #273
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walking Tourist View Post
    Hmmm, I'm actually going to ignore the personal comments.
    How about discussing Israel instead of me?
    The original topic was Israel attacking ships in international waters. Oh, and shooting people from helicopters.
    Read this: Captured and detained by Israel, an American tells his story - Israel Flotilla Attack | Gaza Flotilla Attack - Salon.com
    Israel should be sanctioned for that.
    It's a violation of international law.
    That's all.
    You wrote the best posts in this thread.
    Peace does not side.

  4. #274
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    Let's put it this way. If a side chooses to advance their position through violence, that is their right. But they should not complain if the other retaliates with maximal force and they end up on the losing end. It's only fair.
    Wrong again. I support the right to resist occupation, not the right to occupy someone else's country. The Israelis are the aggressor, they are colonizing the land of the Palestinains, which they have no right to do. The Palestinians are defending themselves from that, which they have a right to do. The Israelis could end the conflict tomorrow if they wished.

    Likewise the poverty and deaths imposed by the Israelis on the Palestinians, which is an inevitable part of the Zionist project itself, are in no way comparable to a few homemade rockets, (which began only in the last few years after decades of occupation and Israeli expansionism).

    And in any case, the blockade is illegal, the Israelis have no right to police the borders of Gaza or the High Seas, and they shot upon unarmed people with live ammunition while trying to capture their ship illegally. It's now shown that those killed were shot in the head from close range and up to 30 times each. Something you've completely "forgotten" about it seems.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  5. #275
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    The Israelis could end the conflict tomorrow if they wished.
    ...by allowing themselves to be overrun, displaced, and exiled again at best, murdered in the street at worst.

    They're not going to do that voluntarily.

    The Palestinian refugees are the ones that fled from the 1948 war, thinking that the Jewish-held territory would be quickly overrun. As we know, it didn't turn out that way.

    The Palestinians that didn't flee got Israeli citizenship; the ones that did had sided with the enemy, and weren't allowed back. Time has not decreased the validity of this decision.

  6. #276
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    ...by allowing themselves to be overrun, displaced, and exiled again at best, murdered in the street at worst.
    No, because if they offered the Palestiaians the right of return and genuine compensation for the harm done to them, the great majority would have no more need or desire to fight them, unless you think people fire rockets or blow themselves up for fun.

    However it is all hypothetical as I know Israel wouldn't do that, I am simply showing that they could if they wanted to in order to dmeonstrate that it is their expansionism and aggression which causes the conflict.

    The Palestinian refugees are the ones that fled from the 1948 war, thinking that the Jewish-held territory would be quickly overrun. As we know, it didn't turn out that way.

    The Palestinians that didn't flee got Israeli citizenship; the ones that did had sided with the enemy, and weren't allowed back. Time has not decreased the validity of this decision.
    [/QUOTE]

    Do you really believe this fantasy or are you just trolling me?

    I'm just curious is all.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  7. #277
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    Do you really believe this fantasy or are you just trolling me?

    I'm just curious is all.
    Oh, come on... you can do better than flat denial. Has your skill for dialectic abandoned you at a critical moment?

    Either resume your alternate narrative in which the working class is being oppressed by Da Man, or we're revoking your Marxist card!

  8. #278
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Oh, come on... you can do better than flat denial. Has your skill for dialectic abandoned you at a critical moment?

    Either resume your alternate narrative in which the working class is being oppressed by Da Man, or we're revoking your Marxist card!
    OK that answers my question.

    Next!
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  9. #279
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    OK that answers my question.

    Next!
    Oh, nice deflection. Well played.

    EDIT: This Wikipedia article seems to indicate that my summary of events is reductionist, simplistic, and substantially incorrect.

    I should have expected it. Nothing in the Middle East is ever quite that simple.

  10. #280
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Oh, nice deflection. Well played.

    EDIT: This Wikipedia article seems to indicate that my summary of events is reductionist, simplistic, and substantially incorrect.

    I should have expected it. Nothing in the Middle East is ever quite that simple.
    So you did really believe your little story!?

    Sorry, I honestly thought you were trolling because I didn't think anyone alive could believe that.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

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