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  1. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walking Tourist View Post
    Sure.
    Israeli leadership=not the responsibility of the U.S. taxpayers.
    It's time to cut off the military aid to a country that attacks ships in international waters (yes, that's Israel). The U.S. government could use those resources to fix the infrastructure in the United States or to clean up the wetlands in Louisiana...
    Remember the fire hose analogy that FDR used when he supplied arms to Great Britain to fight the Nazis?

    Same exact case here.

    On the one hand, we have Israel, our ally.

    On the other hand, we have a bunch of people who danced in the streets on 9/11.

    Obvious choice here.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  2. #232
    it's tea time! Walking Tourist's Avatar
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    We're sending massive amounts of military aid to Israel because there are stupid people in other countries?


    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post
    Remember the fire hose analogy that FDR used when he supplied arms to Great Britain to fight the Nazis?

    Same exact case here.

    On the one hand, we have Israel, our ally.

    On the other hand, we have a bunch of people who danced in the streets on 9/11.

    Obvious choice here.
    I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle and here is my spout. Every time I steam up, I give a shout. Just tip me over and pour me out.

  3. #233
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walking Tourist View Post
    You are completely wrong.
    I have heard many eyewitness accounts about the situation in Palestine... about the wall... about how it keeps kids from going to school... about how the settlers throw rocks at schoolchildren. I have heard the stories. I have seen the pictures.
    No. I have not been to the Middle East.
    Most of what you see in your TV about this conflict is sheer propaganda. I should even add that no conflict in the history of mankind has been so deliberately distorted for ideological reasons. And it works for both side: Israelis as well as Palestinians.

    p.s. I take offense to being called "ignorant" and to having my comments dismissed as "naive" or "crass stupidity." I have never once stooped to name calling during this debate and I expect not to be the target of name calling. If you disagree, that's fine. Just say that you disagree. And do your part in maintaining a civil tone. It's not too much to ask.
    I'm sorry, I was just honest.
    Last edited by ajblaise; 06-08-2010 at 01:40 PM. Reason: insults removed
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  4. #234
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    Hmmm, I'm actually going to ignore the personal comments.
    How about discussing Israel instead of me?
    The original topic was Israel attacking ships in international waters. Oh, and shooting people from helicopters.
    Read this: Captured and detained by Israel, an American tells his story - Israel Flotilla Attack | Gaza Flotilla Attack - Salon.com
    Israel should be sanctioned for that.
    It's a violation of international law.
    That's all.
    I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle and here is my spout. Every time I steam up, I give a shout. Just tip me over and pour me out.

  5. #235
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walking Tourist View Post
    Hmmm, I'm actually going to ignore the personal comments.
    How about discussing Israel instead of me?
    Can we discuss the pro-Pali Turks and others aboard the ships as well?

  6. #236
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    Sure. Of course, we don't have any of the facts. Remember that Israel took away all of the cameras and computers, etc., of everyone on those ships. Read this: Promised Land

    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Can we discuss the pro-Pali Turks and others aboard the ships as well?
    I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle and here is my spout. Every time I steam up, I give a shout. Just tip me over and pour me out.

  7. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walking Tourist View Post
    Sure. Of course, we don't have any of the facts. Remember that Israel took away all of the cameras and computers, etc., of everyone on those ships.
    So you're saying we've got plenty of material with which to condemn the Israelis for this event, but a total absence of evidence by which to judge the pro-Palestinians involved in this same event? Due to the actions of those dastardly Israelis?

    On second thought, never mind. If this is really your position, I don't think I want to discuss anything of substance with you.

  8. #238
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    Read this: How Israeli propaganda shaped U.S. media coverage of the flotilla attack - Glenn Greenwald - Salon.com

    And, if you don't want to discuss anything of substance with me, that's fine. I don't care. This whole discussion is about Israel, not me.
    But, since the Israeli military did the attacking and since the people on the ship were attacked, it seems as if the attention should be focused on the attacker, rather than the attackee.

    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    So you're saying we've got plenty of material with which to condemn the Israelis for this event, but a total absence of evidence by which to judge the pro-Palestinians involved in this same event? Due to the actions of those dastardly Israelis?

    On second thought, never mind. If this is really your position, I don't think I want to discuss anything of substance with you.
    I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle and here is my spout. Every time I steam up, I give a shout. Just tip me over and pour me out.

  9. #239
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walking Tourist View Post
    Read this: How Israeli propaganda shaped U.S. media coverage of the flotilla attack - Glenn Greenwald - Salon.com

    And, if you don't want to discuss anything of substance with me, that's fine. I don't care. This whole discussion is about Israel, not me.
    But, since the Israeli military did the attacking and since the people on the ship were attacked, it seems as if the attention should be focused on the attacker, rather than the attackee.
    There were other avenues for routing humanitarian supplies to the Palestinians, channels that allow the supplies to be inspected for weapons and ammunition prior to trucking them over the border. The people behind the flotilla knew this; this whole event was not about delivering humanitarian supplies, but about forcing a confrontation with Israel. Mission accomplished. The backers of that "humanitarian" flotilla got exactly what they wanted, exactly what they planned for: A public relations event. Goody for them.

  10. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    There were other avenues for routing humanitarian supplies to the Palestinians, channels that allow the supplies to be inspected for weapons and ammunition prior to trucking them over the border.
    Except that Israel blocks 80% of aid to Gaza.

    Would you really trust people who dleiberately bomb civilians and openly say they won't let building materials into Gaza, to distribute aid there.

    As for your allegations of ammunition and arms destined for Gaza being on board, why haven't even the Israelis alleged this? Unless you think that Hamas would have wanted a flame gun and a sharpened table leg. Are you saying the state of Israel is covering up for the pro-Palestine activists?
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

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