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  1. #221
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    Lot of jew bashing in here it seems... werent the "activists" tossing flash bangs too?
    Nothing to do with Jew bashing. The only generalized racial abuse you will see in this thread is by supporters of Israel, directed at Arabs.

    Israel is not synonymous with Jews. I would say you are Jew bashing by associating all Jews with Israel and Zionism.


    I don't now what "tossing flash bangs" means. The IDF alleges they had one flame gun. But it's not the point, even if they had had guns, they would have had the right to shoot a bunch of IDF thugs engaging in high seas piracy in order to enforce an illegal blockade. This would be a defensive action.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  2. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    Nothing to do with Jew bashing. The only generalized racial abuse you will see in this thread is by supporters of Israel, directed at Arabs.

    Israel is not synonymous with Jews. I would say you are Jew bashing by associating all Jews with Israel and Zionism.


    I don't now what "tossing flash bangs" means. The IDF alleges they had one flame gun. But it's not the point, even if they had had guns, they would have had the right to shoot a bunch of IDF thugs engaging in high seas piracy in order to enforce an illegal blockade. This would be a defensive action.
    1) It has everything to do with Jew bashing. As for racial abuse directed at Arabs, the idea that most of them are uneducated religious boors is more or less true; hence, the standards of living for women, homosexuals, non-muslims, and so on, in those countries.

    2) Israel is absolutely synonymous with Jews. Zionism is the belief that there is a nation specifically for the Jewish people, and that nation is Israel. Zionism isn't "slaughter all the Arabs and Palestinians!". Zionism is "There is a nation specifically for the Jewish people, and other people can find another country to live in, and that country for the Jews is Israel". Zionism is Judaism. Anybody Jew that is anti-zionist is disingenuous, as many Jewish holidays have something along the line of "next year in Jerusalem". Jewish people who pray (not many do) pray towards Jerusalem. Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. The Jews are called the people of Israel, and have been since day one of Judaism's birth.

    3) In an armed conflict, a blockade is absolutely legal so long as both belligerent parties know about it, and neutral ports are not blockaded. Israel is in an armed conflict against Hamas, so the blockade is indeed legal.

    And I believe Blackmail! puts it best. If pacifism was the solution, there wouldn't be any conflict.

    Unlike what most ideological "all life is sacred" thinkers think, armed forces exist for when the guy next to you will stop at nothing to kill you, so you have to defend yourself.

    Frankly, the easiest solution for there to be peace in the middle east is if either the Jews or the Palestinians were no longer there, and by no longer there, I mean wiped out.

    And if push comes to shove, you have rockets and potentially worn out, unmaintained, untrained armed forces against perhaps the deadliest man-for-man military in the world. I'll let you take bets on that one.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  3. #223
    it's tea time! Walking Tourist's Avatar
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    You are completely wrong.
    I have heard many eyewitness accounts about the situation in Palestine... about the wall... about how it keeps kids from going to school... about how the settlers throw rocks at schoolchildren. I have heard the stories. I have seen the pictures.
    No. I have not been to the Middle East.
    Travel there is far beyond my budget.
    And, as for conflicts that last for years, the Israel vs. Palestine conflict is not unique. The civil war in El Salvador, funded by the U.S. taxpayers, finally ended. There were some terrible massacres, such as the one in El Mozote, when 900 people were killed and only one survivor remained. Archbishop Oscar Romero was killed.
    The civil war in Guatemala ended after many years. The government's goal was to kill the entire indigenous population of Guatemala (the majority of Guatemala's population). Fortunately, that didn't happen.
    Long conflicts can be ended by peaceful means. And they are.
    The conflict between the Israelis and the Palestinians will never end, so long as both sides are being supplied with weapons.
    WT
    p.s. I take offense to being called "ignorant" and to having my comments dismissed as "naive" or "crass stupidity." I have never once stooped to name calling during this debate and I expect not to be the target of name calling. If you disagree, that's fine. Just say that you disagree. And do your part in maintaining a civil tone. It's not too much to ask.


    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    I would mean the end of Isreal when during the following month, a coalition led by all Arab countries + Iran wipes it out.

    ---

    Frankly, I'm fed up to see ignorant people writing totally unrealistic comments about a conflict they only witnessed on TV. It's obscene, somehow.

    Ignorance is never an excuse for naivety and crass stupidity.

    If it was so simple to solve this conflict, if it was so black and white, then it would not have lasted during the past 60 years.
    I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle and here is my spout. Every time I steam up, I give a shout. Just tip me over and pour me out.

  4. #224
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    Once again, people decry the "waah walls waaah"

    Get a flipping clue. If it weren't for suicide bombers and rockets, there'd be no wall.

    The Israeli leadership isn't the keeper of the Palestinians. Do we understand that yet?

    Palestinians != responsibility of Israeli leaders.

    Israeli people = responsibility of Israeli leaders.
    Last edited by Bellflower; 06-08-2010 at 06:53 AM. Reason: Removed invective
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  5. #225
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    I would mean the end of Isreal when during the following month, a coalition led by all Arab countries + Iran wipes it out.

    ---

    Frankly, I'm fed up to see ignorant people writing totally unrealistic comments about a conflict they only witnessed on TV. It's obscene, somehow.

    Ignorance is never an excuse for naivety and crass stupidity.

    If it was so simple to solve this conflict, if it was so black and white, then it would not have lasted during the past 60 years.
    haha Peace would come when all the jews and arabs lay down thier weapons and allow yet another foreign power hold control he says...
    Ground control to Major Tom

  6. #226
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post
    Sorry, but Israel isn't going after the world. Contrast that with 9/11, the London bombings, Madrid, and all of the Shia on Sunni (and vice versa) violence just about, well, everywhere, those two groups mix.

    As for Israel needing an enemy, oh please. Was there ever a time in history when Jews were out trying to conquer anyone?
    Yeah the media and the US government via some super secret Jew-ocracy apparently.

    this seemed relevant.

    Ground control to Major Tom

  7. #227
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post
    Get a flipping clue. If it weren't for suicide bombers and rockets, there'd be no wall.
    Wrong way round. There were no suicide bombers in Palestine until the Nakba, or even for decades after. Again, terrorism against civilian targets was imported to Palestine by the Zionist Irgun.

    Btw, I am not a pacifist. I support the Palestinians right to resit the occupation of their land with focrce.

    PS I reported your last post for the "filthy Palestinians" comment.

  8. #228
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Good on the Swedish dockers.

    Sweden to launch weeklong boycott on Israeli ships - Israel News, Ynetnews

    Sweden to launch weeklong boycott on Israeli ships


    Swedish Port Workers Union says won't handle Israeli ships in protest of Monday's raid on a Gaza-bound aid flotilla

    Associated Press Published: 06.05.10, 16:52 / Israel News




    Swedish dockworkers are set to launch a weeklong boycott of Israeli ships and goods to protest Monday's raid on a Gaza-destined aid flotilla, a union spokesman said Saturday



    Nine activists died after Israeli troops intercepted the convoy. Nearly 700 activists had joined that operation, most of them aboard the lead boat from Turkey that was the scene of the violence.



    Scandinavian Response

    40% of Norwegians: Ban Israeli products / AFP

    Survey conducted two days after deadly Navy raid shows 9.5% of respondents already boycotting Israeli products, while 33.5% would like to. Head of country's Socialist Left party calls on international community to boycott arms trade with Jewish state
    Full story



    Peter Annerback, a spokesman for the Swedish Port Workers Union which has around 1,500 members, said workers are urged to refuse handling of Israeli goods and ships during the June 15-24 boycott.



    "If an Israeli ship would come we would just leave it be and not work on it," Annerback said of the measures.



    The union supports the organization "Ship to Gaza," which took part in the flotilla headed for Gaza.



    In a statement, the union said the reason for the boycott "is the unprecedented criminal attack on the peaceful ship convoy In Gaza. Several peace activists were killed by Israeli commandos and other participants were detained without any reason."



    It also urged other unions and organizations to join them through similar initiatives and called for Israel to be brought to justice for the attack and that it respects international law "and that the blockade of Gaza immediately lifted."




    Annerback said it was still unclear how much the boycott is expected to affect trade between the Sweden and Israel since the union still needs to identify cargos with Israeli origin.



    "Right now it's not that easy to spot where it comes from so we still have a lot of detective work to do in that area," Federal Chairman Bjorn Borg said.

  9. #229
    it's tea time! Walking Tourist's Avatar
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    Sure.
    Israeli leadership=not the responsibility of the U.S. taxpayers.
    It's time to cut off the military aid to a country that attacks ships in international waters (yes, that's Israel). The U.S. government could use those resources to fix the infrastructure in the United States or to clean up the wetlands in Louisiana...

    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post

    The Israeli leadership isn't the keeper of the Palestinians. Do we understand that yet?
    I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle and here is my spout. Every time I steam up, I give a shout. Just tip me over and pour me out.

  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post

    Btw, I am not a pacifist. I support the Palestinians right to resit the occupation of their land with the indiscriminate killing of civilians.
    Fixed that for you.

    And therefore you support the Israelis' right to put that kind of resistance down.

    Thanks.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

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