User Tag List

First 12202122232432 Last

Results 211 to 220 of 341

  1. #211
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,653

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    What I see... Two fundamentalist movements chopping away at each other.
    Nothing can be described in terms of right and wrong since the Zionist invasion in 48.
    After that, it's all just the story of occupation.

    Now, there are two ways to deal with occupying a foreign country successfully in the long term.
    Either you kill every native and resettle, or you make them like the new government.
    Deport or push them, and they'll just cause problems forever and end up overthrowing you.
    I used to stand on the Palestinian side of this, being a leftist.
    Since Hamas took over the entire operation and they went Islamic Fundamentalist, i.e terrorists...
    No, I do not sympathize with the Hamas movement.

    I can support the PFLP or maybe even the PLO. They don't utilize suicide bombers, for one.
    Now I can sort of understand why the Israelis build walls and starve them out, in order to root them out.
    So many innocents in the way, though. Pure madness. But, the world is not a safe fluffy little place.
    Shit happens. That it does.
    I agree totally, the rest of the world needs to seriously think about how its going to protect itself from the both of them.

    The israelis have reduced the palestinians to some kind of maniacal mess wiling to buy crazy death cultish tactics where they aspire to topping themselves and perhaps killing a few inconsequential innocents or soldiers in the process. Its a disaster for the two of them and complete disaster in humanitarian terms.

    I'm sure the day will come when some horrendous end to that conflict comes about, whether its the palestinians "drinking the cool aid" en masse or the Israelis liquidating them, it'll not end there though, fundamentally they need an "other", an enemy, now and their existence, either of them, would likely be jeopardised by peace.

    It could have been avoided, there where good peace processes but then the supporters within Israel where assasinated, remember that guy stabbing up the statesman/leader, what happened to him? And shortly thereafter Arafat dies of a mystery illness seemingly tailored to knock him out. Its all been a foregone conclusion since then.

  2. #212
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    481

    Default

    Sorry, but Israel isn't going after the world. Contrast that with 9/11, the London bombings, Madrid, and all of the Shia on Sunni (and vice versa) violence just about, well, everywhere, those two groups mix.

    As for Israel needing an enemy, oh please. Was there ever a time in history when Jews were out trying to conquer anyone?
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  3. #213
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    3,619

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Walking Tourist View Post
    The United States doesn't criticize Israel, not even when the Israelis kill Americans. Where was the official outrage when Rachel Corrie (a U.S. citizen) was killed? One American was killed and several were wounded on that Turkish ship, and President Obama has not offered substantial criticism to Israel. The New York Times described the Obama administration's response to this current situation as "tepid."
    If you were to substitute the names "North Korea" or "Cuba" for "Israel," I bet you would get a different response to an incident such as this.
    A good post.
    Of course, US is the key to the problem.
    The US. assistance to Israel provides a paradox.
    Genuine help is a reciprocy. Give is take.
    The Jewish lobby is sincere. As it is it undermines the security of Israel.

  4. #214
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    8w7 sx/so
    Socionics
    EIE
    Posts
    3,919

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I agree totally, the rest of the world needs to seriously think about how its going to protect itself from the both of them.

    The israelis have reduced the palestinians to some kind of maniacal mess wiling to buy crazy death cultish tactics where they aspire to topping themselves and perhaps killing a few inconsequential innocents or soldiers in the process. Its a disaster for the two of them and complete disaster in humanitarian terms.

    I'm sure the day will come when some horrendous end to that conflict comes about, whether its the palestinians "drinking the cool aid" en masse or the Israelis liquidating them, it'll not end there though, fundamentally they need an "other", an enemy, now and their existence, either of them, would likely be jeopardised by peace.

    It could have been avoided, there where good peace processes but then the supporters within Israel where assasinated, remember that guy stabbing up the statesman/leader, what happened to him? And shortly thereafter Arafat dies of a mystery illness seemingly tailored to knock him out. Its all been a foregone conclusion since then.
    I don't know. How could I?
    But I think that maybe this time Israel chewed off a bit more than it can chew.
    Probably, it wasn't even intentional. The thing with being on international waters while boarding.
    Probably some idiot captain taking a bad initiative.

    However, as you might have heard, Turkey is starting to sound a bit hostile towards Israel.
    Now... Turkey has what most of the Islamic countries does not.
    A modern, well-equipped and large army. Most of them has the latter, but not the others.
    Last time I checked, Turkey had an active armed force of over 600 000.
    Over 400 000 of these being in the Turkish Army (land forces).
    Turkey is in fact even a bit stronger and better than the IDF.

    As a part of their modernization program that has been ongoing since the 80s, they are putting much focus on indigenous military hardware and software.
    As such, they can probably produce and license out God knows what to the poor neighbors in the event of war.
    There'll be war, sooner or later. I'm pretty sure that this is an important watermark and the so far largest reason Israel can't repel the attackers.
    Hopefully, the "Holy Land" will get swallowed by Egypt or Turkey.

    But... After that? There's no unifying enemy in the sector and there seems to be something with the climate that prohibits peace.

    -_-

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  5. #215
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,653

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post
    Sorry, but Israel isn't going after the world. Contrast that with 9/11, the London bombings, Madrid, and all of the Shia on Sunni (and vice versa) violence just about, well, everywhere, those two groups mix.

    As for Israel needing an enemy, oh please. Was there ever a time in history when Jews were out trying to conquer anyone?
    I'm not talking about conquest, I'm talking about grievance. Vengence. And the preception of threat. Established as an ethnic homeland and state all persons who do not share that ethnicity therefore are a threat or at least an alien "other".

  6. #216
    it's tea time! Walking Tourist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    esfp
    Enneagram
    7
    Posts
    1,452

    Default

    Best solution (unfortunately, unlikely to happen): everyone involved in giving weapons and other military aid to Israel and to the Palestinians stops doing so. An international peacekeeping force takes away the weapons in this highly militarized part of the world. This would force the Israelis and the Palestinians to negotiate a settlement. That would mean that they would actually have to talk to each other, instead of threaten to destroy each other.
    The best kind of peace that could be created would be a lasting peace.
    Both sides have legitimate grievances against the other. A truth and reconciliation commission would be a great thing for them.
    Unfortunately, as I previously said, this is not too likely to happen. And that's too bad. Israelis and Palestinians deserve far better than all of that violence and hostility.
    They don't need to have other countries supply them with the means to destroy each other.
    Then they could concentrate on their economies...
    as could the countries that are wasting too much resources by sending all of those weapons...

    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    A good post.
    Of course, US is the key to the problem.
    The US. assistance to Israel provides a paradox.
    Genuine help is a reciprocy. Give is take.
    The Jewish lobby is sincere. As it is it undermines the security of Israel.
    I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle and here is my spout. Every time I steam up, I give a shout. Just tip me over and pour me out.

  7. #217
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    2,934

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Walking Tourist View Post
    Best solution (unfortunately, unlikely to happen): everyone involved in giving weapons and other military aid to Israel and to the Palestinians stops doing so. An international peacekeeping force takes away the weapons in this highly militarized part of the world.
    I would mean the end of Isreal when during the following month, a coalition led by all Arab countries + Iran wipes it out.

    ---

    Frankly, I'm fed up to see ignorant people writing totally unrealistic comments about a conflict they only witnessed on TV. It's obscene, somehow.

    Ignorance is never an excuse for naivety and crass stupidity.

    If it was so simple to solve this conflict, if it was so black and white, then it would not have lasted during the past 60 years.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

    7w8 SCUxI

  8. #218
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    1,292

    Default

    Rannie Amiri: The Real Motive Behind the Gaza Flotilla Attack

    The Real Motive Behind the Gaza Flotilla Attack

    By RANNIE AMIRI

    Worldwide outrage and condemnation of Israel¹s brazen, unprovoked attack on
    the Gaza Freedom Flotilla, which killed at least nine activists and injured
    dozens, was predictable and justified. Many remained puzzled, though, as to
    why Israel thought it necessary to send in elite, rappelling commandos to
    confront an unarmed civilian flotilla carrying 10,000 tons of humanitarian
    aid to the beleaguered territory. The six-ship convoy was co-sponsored by a
    Turkish humanitarian organization and sailed under Turkey¹s flag when it was
    raided in international waters.

    The consensus was that Israel was ³sending a message.² Anyone who dared
    challenge its naval blockade and siege of Gaza would meet a similar fate.

    This is a correct yet superficial analysis. The real motive behind the
    Israeli assault is far more sinister: to deliberately undermine (if not
    entirely abort) consequential, substantive peace talks with the Palestinians
    and Syrians, and repay the Turks for negotiating a nuclear fuel-swap deal
    with Iran (which significantly set back Israel¹s case for military
    intervention).

    In essence, it was done to sabotage peace.

    ³We have to set up a dynamic state bent upon expansion,² David Ben Gurion
    famously stated. And peace, stability and diplomacy are obstacles to
    Zionism¹s tenets of land acquisition and subjugation of indigenous peoples.

    There have been recent calls to advance the indirect, United States-mediated
    proximity talks taking place between the Israeli government and Palestinian
    leader Mahmoud Abbas. This now seems unlikely.

    The opening sentence of a May 31 Associated Press report inferred similarly:

    ³Israel's bloody, bungled takeover of a Gaza-bound Turkish aid vessel is
    complicating U.S.-led Mideast peace efforts, deepening Israel's
    international isolation ...²

    That was exactly the intent. Israel can easily wither ³international
    isolation² to the degree the U.S. protects it from meaningful sanction.
    Israel actually covets isolation; it permits it to operate in ³nothing to
    lose² mode. Expropriation of Palestinian land accelerates and reckless
    behavior goes unchecked.

    Additionally, the attack effectively severs relations with Turkey. Israel
    wants no part of a non-military solution to the Iranian nuclear issue like
    the one just brokered by Turkey and Brazil. Turkey¹s role in mediating
    between Syria and Israel, for all the perfunctory plaudits the latter gave
    it, was actually unwelcome and is now off the table as well.

    It would not be the first time Israel deliberately provoked a crisis at the
    expense of civilian lives to further its expansionist agenda, justify war,
    or use as a campaign issue:

    Six weeks before Israel¹s 1996 elections, Prime Minister Shimon Peres
    launched operation ³Grapes of Wrath,² a two-week military blitz in Lebanon
    conducted in the midst of a two-decade occupation of the south. During it,
    the Israelis massacred 106 civilians that had sought shelter at a United
    Nations compound in Qana.

    In September 2000, four months before his election, Prime Minister Ariel
    Sharon (accompanied by 1,000 riot police), paraded through the Haram
    al-Sharif compound in Jerusalem, which includes al-Aqsa mosque‹the third
    holiest site in Islam‹leading to the Second Intifada.
    The United Nations Human Rights Commission, in a resolution titled ³Grave
    and massive violations of the human rights of the Palestinian people by
    Israel,² condemned ³the provocative visit to Al-Haram al-Sharif on 28
    September 2000 by Ariel Sharon, the Likud party leader, which triggered the
    tragic events that followed in occupied East Jerusalem and the other
    occupied Palestinian territories, resulting in a high number of deaths and
    injuries among Palestinian civilians.²

    Sharon then campaigned on putting down the intifada he instigated.

    1,500 Lebanese were killed, one million displaced, and the country¹s civil
    infrastructure decimated during Israel¹s failed bid to destroy Hezbollah in
    the July 2006 war. The conflict started after two Israeli commandos were
    caught snooping around the Lebanese border town of Aitaa al-Chaab. After
    years of repeated, illegal violations of Lebanese airspace failed to provoke
    a response, the soldiers¹ capture was the pretense needed to initiate the
    disproportionate Israeli onslaught.
    The flimsy rationale upon which the 2008-2009 Gaza invasion was based was
    previously discussed.
    The latest Israeli operation against 700 activists delivering humanitarian
    supplies to Gaza is only the latest in a series of criminal endeavors meant
    to quash any hope for peace, negotiation or conflict resolution between
    Israel, its neighbors and the Palestinians.

    Mission accomplished.

    Rannie Amiri is an independent Middle East commentator. He may be reached
    at: rbamiri [at] yahoo [dot] com.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  9. #219
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    2,934

    Default

    Tcda,


    Gandhi's advice during the Shoah was to let it happen without offering any resistance.
    That says it all about the overwhelming intellectual dishonesty of the article you just quoted.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

    7w8 SCUxI

  10. #220
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    1,292

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Tcda,


    Gandhi's advice during the Shoah was to let it happen without offering any resistance.
    That says it all.
    I posted the wrong article. I edited it now.

    I agree with you about Gandhi.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 10
    Last Post: 02-17-2009, 06:45 PM
  2. The Murder of God
    By Mole in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 12-14-2008, 02:56 AM
  3. Do you make a lot of T.V. references in conversations?
    By ladypinkington in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 08-27-2008, 12:23 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO