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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    What happened to "wait for more evidence"?
    I have a prefer credible evidence. The fake stuff don't count.

  2. #152
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    I have a prefer credible evidence. The fake stuff don't count.
    Your criteria for credible is "the IDF told me" and your criteria for fake is "someone dared to criticize the IDF". Which suggests that despite your claims to be "waiting for evidence", the complete opposite is true: you're impervious to any evidence and will go through any contortions to defend the Zionists.

    In any case I'm not sure why I'm still wasting my time debating you.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  3. #153
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Also if they have nothing to hide (despite piracy and murder which have already been proven) why have the Israeli authorities confiscated Al Jazeera footage?

    Both sides of flotilla story - Middle East - Al Jazeera English

    Maybe it showed things that aren't "credible"
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    Your criteria for credible is "the IDF told me" and your criteria for fake is "someone dared to criticize the IDF".
    No. A spin on the truth is painfully obvious with it's convenient omissions.

  5. #155
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    No. A spin on the truth is painfully obvious with it's convenient omissions.
    Such as?
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    why have the Israeli authorities confiscated Al Jazeera footage?
    Obviously, they want to force the world to view their biased version (first?). If the Al Jaz version, with their biased commentary and omissions were available, it would be great propaganda for the other side.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    Such as?
    Simple example:

    "Witnesses say a second wave of commandos followed with a more deadly intent"


    "This second group open fire on the group as they were in the air"


    "I saw people die before my eyes"


    The sequence creates the impression that the commandos killed people from the air. Yet, nowhere did they explicitly say that, so they can't be accused of lying if contradicting evidence shows up on video.

    It's clever propaganda.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by htb View Post
    Genocide is too often conflated with the destruction of a culture or society that is a result of conquest.
    Then please tell me what the difference is.

    Such preservation is pretty rare in history.
    Not really. Keeping place names from the conquered culture is not uncommon, nor is creating large semi-autonomous communities of the conquered culture in countries with as much land as the US (Russia is a good example).

    Then again, this is an Israel-bashing thread, where fact does not tread.
    Right. Anyone who takes a position supporting the Palestinians or condemning Israel is telling lies or relying on falsehoods.

  9. #159
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    It's funny how tcda's type is an intp...hey buddy, mind taking that personality test again? You certainly seem far too idealistic for an NT type.

    Anyhow, here's the practicality of it. Right now, it's a chicken and egg problem. Do you take your foot off of the Palestinians in the hope that they'll stop shooting rockets as a response and indoctrinating newer generations to wait for that moment to do the same, or do you wait for the Palestinians to stop shooting, try to build trust, and so on, before letting up?

    Well, here's some history:

    Israel founded in 1948--ganged up on (it wins, but that's beside the point). Think there'd be peace, that the arabs got burned once, shy twice?

    1967--whoops, that's wrong. (Notice it's a generation later).

    Flash forward, and we still have conflicts (right before Obama's inauguration, Hamas was launching missiles, didn't do too much damage, but did sow fear and chaos, so Israel went in there and curb stomped them for a bit).

    Guess what?

    The Palestinians aren't going to be playing nice anytime soon.

    As an Israeli leader, it isn't your job to ensure the welfare of the guys across the wall you had to create out of necessity to keep them from suicide bombing in droves. It's your job to ensure the safety of Israelis, by any means necessary. The Israeli leaders are doing just that. You want to talk about the poor, collectively punished Palestinians?

    Know how they wouldn't be punished? If Hamas recruited everyone that so wanted to kill Israelis into a sort of army and challenged the IDF in the open.

    But, oh, wait, they're guerrilla fighters and would get completely and utterly crushed if they actually tried that.

    So their "resistance" amounts to attacking Israeli civilians in any way, shape, or form, and then hiding behind human shields when Israel retaliates and then whining about their collective punishing of the poor, oppressed, occupied Palestinians.

    Oh please. You can't have it both ways. If you're going to put up a resistance and hide behind the civilians, then their deaths are on you, not the guys coming after you. Once again, it's not like Israeli leaders say "hey, I want to eat babies and bomb Palestinian civilians today!".

    Palestinian civilian suffering is purely collateral as a result of the MO of the extremists among them, whose goals are to breed more hate by indoctrinating the Palestinians.

    If you want to criticize someone, criticize Hamas, and others like them (Hezbollah, Iran, etc...).

    Sure, in an idealistic world, we could all hold hands and sing Kumbayah. But in a practical world (which clearly you don't live in, tcda, because you'd be singing a much different tune if you ever had a rocket shot at your town), there are practical decisions to be made, and Israel is doing the best with what it's been given.

    So please keep quiet from the peanut gallery, because your opinion doesn't matter.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post
    As an Israeli leader, it isn't your job to ensure the welfare of the guys across the wall you had to create out of necessity to keep them from suicide bombing in droves. It's your job to ensure the safety of Israelis, by any means necessary. The Israeli leaders are doing just that. You want to talk about the poor, collectively punished Palestinians?
    Right, and if they didn't have another national group underneath their boot for the last several decades, there probably wouldn't be any suicide bombers would there?

    And there's no chicken or egg rationalizing over "who started it" necessary, it's the Israelis occupying the Palestine, not the other way around, and for those of us who tend to support the oppressed over the oppressor, that's really all we need to know.

    Know how they wouldn't be punished? If Hamas recruited everyone that so wanted to kill Israelis into a sort of army and challenged the IDF in the open.
    How you figure? Collective punishment of civilian populations happen all the time in conventional wars.

    Oh please. You can't have it both ways. If you're going to put up a resistance and hide behind the civilians, then their deaths are on you, not the guys coming after you.
    So let's say tomorrow the US's military and economic power suddenly collapses and the evil Canuckistanis decide to take advantage and invade the Northeast. The mighty Canadian war machine rolls through New England, and a few weeks later they arrive in Philadelphia. I start taking pot shots at Canuckistani soldiers, and the Canadian Army bombs my block in response, you're saying those people who died are totally on me and the Canadian invaders have NO responsibility for it?

    That's a pretty fucked up ethical position to take.

    Once again, it's not like Israeli leaders say "hey, I want to eat babies and bomb Palestinian civilians today!".
    No, but certain Israeli political leaders are especially nasty people-- like Sharon and Netanyahu-- and much more likely to engage in provocative acts and quicker to resort to disproportionate violence.

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