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  1. #21
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Thanks for bringing this to my attention - time to get the ball rolling and bombard the RACOG with petitions!! This is an appalling abuse and I will use my not inconsiderable contacts to do something about this!!!
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
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    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
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  2. #22
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post
    Well, I feel that it is needless to say that this proposal is being pushed almost exclusively due to the cultural influence of non-European Australian immigrants, but it clearly is.

    Now, while I find the practice barbaric and contemptible, it will be interesting to see how the Australian leftist front responds to the issue. On the one hand, they are prompted by their ideology to protect the rights of immigrants and respect their cultural practices for the sake of diversity, while on the other, they must surely find this law to be against their humanist stance due to the fact that it could be interpreted as condoning the practice.
    Lex - some things are simply not tolerable. Last week a young African refugee was jailed for a very long time for stabbing/murdering an innocent bystander to a fracas caused by someone from his group of youths wanting a cigarette from another group of youths.

    While humanitarianism is important in the West, the challenge is always going to be having these refugees adjust to the acceptable cultural norms in their new countries. In this case a life for a cigarette is not acceptable.

    Perhaps we are not doing the right thing in assisting them to adjust culturally but it may also be that the threat of returning them to their origins should be on the table for serious breaches???
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
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  3. #23
    Senior Member Lex Talionis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsatiableCuriosity View Post
    Lex - some things are simply not tolerable. Last week a young African refugee was jailed for a very long time for stabbing/murdering an innocent bystander to a fracas caused by someone from his group of youths wanting a cigarette from another group of youths.

    While humanitarianism is important in the West, the challenge is always going to be having these refugees adjust to the acceptable cultural norms in their new countries. In this case a life for a cigarette is not acceptable.

    Perhaps we are not doing the right thing in assisting them to adjust culturally but it may also be that the threat of returning them to their origins should be on the table for serious breaches???
    Oh, absolutely. Some practices are definitely intolerable. I was simply playing Devil's advocate.

    My own views on the matter would probably get me banned.
    "Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily."
    —Bonaparte

  4. #24
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsatiableCuriosity View Post
    Perhaps we are not doing the right thing in assisting them to adjust culturally but it may also be that the threat of returning them to their origins should be on the table for serious breaches???
    I do not see how this can possibly be considered fair.

    Non-refugee commits horrible crime -->prison sentence (I do not know if Australia has abolished capital punishment yet, but that's also an option)

    Refugee commits horrible crime --> sent back to warzone
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  5. #25
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireyPheonix View Post
    I can see both sides of the argument....but you've got to feel for the girls who end up having to go under many procedures just to fix up a mess. I can't quite see the problem of female circumcision going away just yet, or for many generations yet.
    If I had to choose a side though, I guess it would be to keep it illegal, and start prosecuting health professionals who don't report it. The practise is never going to cease, if health professional don't start acting from their conscience. Suspected sexual abuse has to be reported, this comes under the same category IMHO.
    I agree wholeheartedly - and this practise needs to be relegated to the realm of sexual abuse. Correct me if I am wrong, but nowhere in the Koran does it sanction such mutilations. This is an impost from a male dominated culture to prevent their women having the same lascivious thoughts as they themselves do.

    From my understanding of the Koran, women occupy a different but equally honoured place in society. The extreme suppression visited on women in extremist countries has nothing to do with the teachings of the Koran!!
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
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  6. #26
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    I do not see how this can possibly be considered fair.

    Non-refugee commits horrible crime -->prison sentence (I do not know if Australia has abolished capital punishment yet, but that's also an option)

    Refugee commits horrible crime --> sent back to warzone
    How is this not fair??

    Do you think that a person who does not let go of the culture that sees a human life as dispensable for something as trivial as "I want that and if you don't want to give it to me you die" is fair to inflict on the country that has given safe haven and whose own culture dispensed with the death penalty as a heinous process of justice?
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
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  7. #27
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsatiableCuriosity View Post
    How is this not fair??

    Do you think that a person who does not let go of the culture that sees a human life as dispensable for something as trivial as "I want that and if you don't want to give it to me you die" is fair to inflict on the country that has given safe haven and whose own culture dispensed with the death penalty as a heinous process of justice?
    I think it is fair to have all citizens of a country treated equally, whether or not they've immigrated.

    If you want them to act like your lot, treat them like your lot.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  8. #28
    Senior Member Lex Talionis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsatiableCuriosity View Post
    I agree wholeheartedly - and this practise needs to be relegated to the realm of sexual abuse. Correct me if I am wrong, but nowhere in the Koran does it sanction such mutilations. This is an impost from a male dominated culture to prevent their women having the same lascivious thoughts as they themselves do.

    From my understanding of the Koran, women occupy a different but equally honoured place in society. The extreme suppression visited on women in extremist countries has nothing to do with the teachings of the Koran!!
    Well, actually it does. It has just about everything to do with the teachings of the Koran.

    I can find links and excerpts to support this, but I won't, as I don't care about this argument.

    However, I do find it comical that some people actually believe that the Koran is somehow being "abused" by the Islamic "radicals." Everything they do is entirely sanctioned by their holy book and the teachings of their prophet. The only difference between the "radicals" and the "moderate" Muslims is that the former adopts a fundamentalist approach, while the latter has decided to mediate their views with those of the West; much like the Catholic church over the centuries.
    "Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily."
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  9. #29
    Senior Member Bushranger's Avatar
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    Normally I would say that this doesn't have a snowball's chance in Hades, but neither the government, nor the opposition have impressed me with their reasoning recently.

    Are we going to try and legalise honour killings next?
    I'll get you my pretty, and your little hermit crab too!

  10. #30
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    I think it is fair to have all citizens of a country treated equally, whether or not they've immigrated.

    If you want them to act like your lot, treat them like your lot.
    This is a very admirable and noble concept but how do you see it working in reality if the values are not the same as the population that took them in and in not accepting the values of the adopted country the value of a human life becomes nothing?

    I wonder if you would feel that way if it were your father, brother, husband or cousin who was murdered for a cigarette? What cost to the justice system in your own country to incarcerate people committing these crimes, to your own culture if no meaningful consequence is on the cards?
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
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