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  1. #271
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stol11 View Post
    Historical propaganda that Americans seem to get taught in school. You did not 'save our asses' in World War 2, you arrived late and then destroyed our economy after the war.
    Quote Originally Posted by millerm277 View Post
    We also produced a great deal of things and were required for winning the war. As such, we like to look at it as us saving your ass, because we provided the change in the balance of power necessary to win the war.
    Perspective is an interesting phenomenon, is it not?

    Regardless of truth or opinion, in America this attitude is common, and does have the unfortunate side-effect of offending or alienating other Allied nations as it appears to take away from the impact of their contributions.

    It took everyone to win the war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kra View Post
    I hate that Hollywood is lens by which the world views American citizens.
    Does art mirror reality or reality mirror art? The more I live in the US, it's harder to tell the difference.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stol11 View Post
    The last point about Britain’s financial position after the war WAS directly affected by the actions of the US. The US was determined to break the Empire open when it was in its most vulnerable state, when the UK was in need of aid. They didn't just give aid, they attempted to profit from it. Currency convertibility and determination to break the Empire bloc had been a US objective since the Atlantic Charter and the Bretton Woods conference. Both of these things helped decimate the UK economy. It went under the USA's ideological commitment to 'right of sovereignty' but it also conveniently gave the US, on its own, huge monetary benefits as it could exploit markets of an exhausted ''ally''.
    In this far flung and happy corner of the British Empire it was clear to us.

    The USA cut the jugular of the British Empire at the Suez Canal by threatening to crash the British pound.

    One day we were part of the body of the British Empire, connected by the jugular of the Suez Canal, and the next we were physically cut off from the British Empire.

    It was obvious to us that the USA hated the British Empire and sought to destroy it and replace it with itself.

  3. #273
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stol11 View Post
    I may point out I know all of what you have just said, I said that the US was crucial or certainly the tipping point for victory. What I get annoyed about is the way it is portrayed in the popular media and I was merely pointing out that the actions of the US government was anything but selfless.
    Victors write history.

    As to the question of tanks, the fact that the Soviet's won Stalingrad and started pushing back the German forces was only partially to do with American equipment. Admittedly a good proportion, maybe even about half the tanks were US made (by the end of the war), but it was sheer numbers of troops, as well as a lot of their own tanks produced in the newly created industry of central asia as well as Zhukov’s Generalship that contributed to the victory. US aid was a crucial but only one of several crucial factors.
    Without those tanks, German kill ratios would have gone from somewhere around 2:1 to more like 8:1, which even with the Soviet population advantage, would have been unsustainable. No one is denying that Soviet manpower won the war in Europe (practically single-handedly), but they couldn't have done it without American materiel.

    As to the question of what I termed 'incompetence'. I was again playing the American media at its own game. The way most Americans see the war is that they waltzed in (late as usual) and won it single headedly. I was using an example of how this was certainly not the case, I think the veteran factor can also be overstated, even the Germans were surprised they won that battle (Kasserine Pass) considering how low on supplies etc they were.
    It makes sense in the context of the antiwar movement prior to Pearl Harbor.

    The last point about Britain’s financial position after the war WAS directly affected by the actions of the US. The US was determined to break the Empire open when it was in its most vulnerable state, when the UK was in need of aid. They didn't just give aid, they attempted to profit from it. Currency convertibility and determination to break the Empire bloc had been a US objective since the Atlantic Charter and the Bretton Woods conference. Both of these things helped decimate the UK economy. It went under the USA's ideological commitment to 'right of sovereignty' but it also conveniently gave the US, on its own, huge monetary benefits as it could exploit markets of an exhausted ''ally''.
    The Empire was dead regardless of US actions. Considering that the war essentially led to a merger of US and British financial interests, there really was no incentive for the UK to reindustrialize right after the war (the US did just fine supplying them with cheap goods). Of course, the British working class gets left holding the bag, leading to the establishment of the Labour welfare state.

  4. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    It took everyone to win the war.
    The Soviet Union bore the greatest cost of the European war, and so deserves the lion's share of the victory.

  5. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Does art mirror reality or reality mirror art? The more I live in the US, it's harder to tell the difference.
    It is truly the land of fables.

    Compounded by the distinction between sincere and phoney, for in the US when you can fake sincerity, you've got it made.

    To be fabulous all you need to do is be sincerely phoney.

  6. #276
    Member Stol11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    In this far flung and happy corner of the British Empire it was clear to us.

    The USA cut the jugular of the British Empire at the Suez Canal by threatening to crash the British pound.

    One day we were part of the body of the British Empire, connected by the jugular of the Suez Canal, and the next we were physically cut off from the British Empire.

    It was obvious to us that the USA hated the British Empire and sought to destroy it and replace it with itself.
    I apsolutely agree. America's actions during the Suez crisis were so brilliantly hypocrytical. They said they couldn't agree to the invasion without a UN resolution, dear me how history repeats itself.....

  7. #277
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stol11 View Post
    I apsolutely agree. America's actions during the Suez crisis were so brilliantly hypocrytical. They said they couldn't agree to the invasion without a UN resolution, dear me how history repeats itself.....
    The USA's goal had always been to cut off the British Empire.

    1812, seeing Canada as occupied, Monroe Doctrine, purchase of Alaska, Civil War, Hawaii... it was merely a matter of finding an opening and going for it.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  8. #278
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    I hate all this hate.


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  9. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    I hate US foreign policy.

    I hate US drug laws.

    I hate Patriotism in general. "Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind." -AE

    I hate Congress. Term limits for everybody please, not just the pres. I'd rather dissolve congress entirely.

    I hate the general sense of entitlement that plagues most of my liberal peers.

    I hate the denial of their inherent advantages that plagues most of my conservative friends.


    I hate our culture of fatties and unhealthy people.

    I hate our culture of shifting blame and responsibility.

    I hate our misplaced sense of superiority.

    I hate our inefficient government and it's programs, including public education.

    I'll think of more later.
    I just wanted to second this because I cant think for myself.

  10. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    In this far flung and happy corner of the British Empire it was clear to us.

    The USA cut the jugular of the British Empire at the Suez Canal by threatening to crash the British pound.

    One day we were part of the body of the British Empire, connected by the jugular of the Suez Canal, and the next we were physically cut off from the British Empire.

    It was obvious to us that the USA hated the British Empire and sought to destroy it and replace it with itself.
    The only thing I disagree with is the implication that only the US hated the British Empire. EVERYONE hated the British Empire... much as everyone today hates the American Empire to some extent.

    And yes, we're an empire. You pretty much qualify as soon as you're allowed to station troops in purportedly sovereign states.

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