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  1. #11
    Senior Member eagleseven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentMind View Post
    Western consumers are not Chinese, and Apple is not the Chinese government.
    Is Apple or the western consumer forcing people to work in these "hell factories"?

    Or are Chinese citizens working in these factories because it is their most lucrative option?

  2. #12
    Senior Member eagleseven's Avatar
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    "As any historian could tell you, no society has every pulled itself out of poverty without putting its children to work. Back in the early 19th century, when Americans were as poor as Bangladeshis are now, we were sending out children to work at about the same rate as the Bangladeshis are today.

    Having had the good fortune to get rich first, Americans can afford to give Bangladeshis a helping hand, and there are plenty of good ways for us to do that. Denying Third Worlders the very opportunities our ancestors embraced, whether through full-fledged boycotts or by insisting on health and safety standards they can’t afford to meet, is not one of those ways."

    -Dr. Steven Landsburg
    We have the arrogance to stop the very behaviors that pulled the West out of poverty because it hurts our feelings?

  3. #13
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eagleseven View Post
    Is Apple or the western consumer forcing people to work in these "hell factories"?
    No.

    Although, supply and demand is a bitch - We require what they supply, and they require jobs. It is a little bit... Interesting, when you think about it like that.

    Even so, the responsibility of this is left solely in the hands of the Chinese government. I, you, him, and everyone else cannot regulate the Chinese economy, but we can provide a cashflow and any cashflow is better than no flow.

    Or are Chinese citizens working in these factories because it is their most lucrative option?
    They need us.
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by eagleseven View Post
    Is Apple or the western consumer forcing people to work in these "hell factories"?

    Or are Chinese citizens working in these factories because it is their most lucrative option?
    If their best option is a terrible job provided by a western company, then it's obviously better than nothing; however, the western company is still just exploiting their poverty, since those conditions are not necessary for the production.

    If changing that would be an agenda behind a (notable) boycott by consumers, than it would become profitable for the company to treat the workers better. They wouldn't just close it down, since those asians would still be a far cheaper workforce, than westerners.

  5. #15
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    It seems we have two opposing schools of thought:

    1. industrialized society requires massive amounts of cheap labor to support itself. This used to be the masses in industrializing nations themselves, but it's shifted to poorer countries, and so to support the society we're "racing to the bottom" for production. Someone is going to be stuck as being cheap near-slave labor permanently

    2. industrializing is an inherently painful process and these conditions, though unattractive, are necessary to industrialize and eventually become as wealthy as industrialized countries today. Also, though industrialized nations cringe the pay and conditions are still better than alternatives.

    Also, to produce computers requires a lot of dangerous chemicals that are contained in the final product. I wonder if this has anything to do with it?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

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