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  1. #41
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasting_Pain View Post
    The only thing capitalism benefits is the individual.
    In other words, everybody.

  2. #42
    Lasting_Pain
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Ummmmm. . . I am pretty sure capitalism operates off the (correct) assumption of scarcity, i.e., people have unlimited desires, but limited resources.




    1) What is so counterintuitive and destructive about capitalism?

    2) If it satisfies individuals (who make up society and who are the ones imbued with human nature), then what on Earth are you talking about?

    I put benefit. What Satisfies and benefits are two different things. As you said your self

    " I am pretty sure capitalism operates off the (correct) assumption of scarcity, i.e., people have unlimited desires, but limited resources."

    Society is limited by its territory, sovereignty, or what have you. Human desires can stretch beyond the world, therefore making capitalism destructive.

    In layman terms it is like having a cup and continuously filling the cup with water. The cup can represent one or two things. Resources or society. The water represents human desires. Eventually the cup reach its limits but the water will still flow because are desires are unlimited. Also I am operating off the logic of capitalism.

    (p.s "counter intuitive" was a poor choice of words on my behalf.)

  3. #43
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasting_Pain View Post
    I put benefit. What Satisfies and benefits are two different things. As you said your self
    Do you try to find things to benefit yourself so that you are satisfied? What am I missing here?


    " I am pretty sure capitalism operates off the (correct) assumption of scarcity, i.e., people have unlimited desires, but limited resources.
    "

    Society is limited by its territory, sovereignty, or what have you. Human desires can stretch beyond the world, therefore making capitalism destructive.

    (p.s "counter intuitive" was a poor choice of words on my behalf.)
    Why is society limited by territory or sovereignty? That is what globalization is trying to eliminate, as well it should.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  4. #44
    Lasting_Pain
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    In other words, everybody.
    Also what benefits the individual does not necessarily benefit the society.


    Edit: Forgot the qualifier.

  5. #45
    Lasting_Pain
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Do you try to find things to benefit yourself so that you are satisfied? What am I missing here?




    Why is society limited by territory or sovereignty? That is what globalization is trying to eliminate, as well it should.
    Oh, I see where you got that, When I said "satisfies human nature". I was making a sarcastic statement to someone who said capitalism is apart of our human nature. I for one do not know what human nature is.

    I thought libertarians stood against globalization.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Why is that, exactly? I've been involved in libertarian politics for since the mid-1990s, alongside the full gamut of the people involved.
    I really dislike discussions like this. Why? Because it's the internet and people lie all the time. I don't believe 99.9% of what people say about their personal lives, but in this thread saying that gets us nowhere.

    My experiences do not confirm your statements.

    I would say writers and politicians who are members of a small, fiercely-ideological part of the political landscape are probably pretty good representatives. Again, you are going to have to come up with an explanation how libertarian values vary so wildly from one part of the country to another, because they seem pretty damn straightforward to me. And I have dealt with A LOT of libertarians in my day. Rallies, fundraisers, conferences, Internet boards, meetups, conversations with think tank members my buddy worked with, you name it.
    They don't vary widely regionally. The ratios of people at different parts of the political spectrum is what varies.

    I don't think that is the only or even main problem with paying for health care.
    I wasn't interested in writing a thesis since this isn't a thread about health care.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #47
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    More people have cellphones than toilets in most poor countries. Cell phones are the most ubiquitous technology in the world, there's one in circulation for every 2 human beings in the planet.
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  8. #48
    Senior Member eagleseven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    My experiences do not confirm your statements.
    Your experience tells you that all libertarians are closeted anarchists.

    My friends who have immigrated from the former soviet states believe that all socialists are closeted stalinists.

    ---

    The morale of the story? It is unwise to generalize from personal anecdotes.

  9. #49
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I really dislike discussions like this. Why? Because it's the internet and people lie all the time. I don't believe 99.9% of what people say about their personal lives, but in this thread saying that gets us nowhere.

    My experiences do not confirm your statements.
    OK, I am sorry your anecdotal statements and my anecdotal statements don't jibe. I have no reason to lie about my personal life here, though. Hell, if there is one thing people from this board probably know about me by now, it's that I am UNUSUALLY open about my personal life.


    They don't vary widely regionally. The ratios of people at different parts of the political spectrum is what varies.
    So, are you saying that there are way MORE libertarians in the Midwest and South than on the East or West Coasts? I don't see any evidence to support that. If I were to guess at which is the most libertarian part of the country, I would guess Silicon Valley, just because there is a correlation between libertarianism and high levels of education (especially in technological fields) and high income. I've spent relatively little time in Northern California, though.


    I wasn't interested in writing a thesis since this isn't a thread about health care.
    Fair enough.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by eagleseven View Post
    Your experience tells you that all libertarians are closeted anarchists.

    My friends who have immigrated from the former soviet states believe that all socialists are closeted stalinists.

    ---

    The morale of the story? It is unwise to generalize from personal anecdotes.
    In a perfect world, there would be no scarcity, no borders, and no governments. Everyone could has much as he or she wanted. We don't live in that world.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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