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  1. #151
    Sniffles
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    Don't worry tcda, this is just Blackmail!'s way of saying how much he loves you.

  2. #152
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    So is it right to say that Conservative liberals are fundamentally Liberal, with some conservative tendencies added? And that Liberal conservatives are fundamentally Conservative, with some liberal tendencies added? It's funny, because reading about a variety of parties in Europe who associate with these terms yields unclear answers to that question.

    But I am inclined to think so: Conservative liberals seem to be found in company with classical liberals and market liberals, whereas Liberal conservatives seem to be found in company with Christian democrats (generalizations). If that's the case, I think I'd be described as Conservative Liberal.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  3. #153
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    So is it right to say that Conservative liberals are fundamentally Liberal, with some conservative tendencies added? And that Liberal conservatives are fundamentally Conservative, with some liberal tendencies added? It's funny, because reading about a variety of parties in Europe who associate with these terms yields unclear answers to that question.

    But I am inclined to think so: Conservative liberals seem to be found in company with classical liberals and market liberals, whereas Liberal conservatives seem to be found in company with Christian democrats (generalizations). If that's the case, I think I'd be described as Conservative Liberal.
    The major difference in my understanding is that conservative-liberalism emphasizes the concepts of "organic reform," accumulated societal wisdom, and the limited capacities/pitfalls of ambitious human action (i.e. assuming unforeseen consequences as a result of failing to understand how one issue affects or is affected by other issues within the context of existing institutions and cultural norms/practices).

    For me, (classical) liberalism is the general goal, while "conservatism" is the means, and the means are even more important than the goal in the long-term, for the reasons outlined above.
    Last edited by lowtech redneck; 05-30-2010 at 08:48 PM. Reason: more to add

  4. #154
    videodrones; questions Verfremdungseffekt's Avatar
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    I think I sit somewhere around Gandhi.

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  5. #155
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Don't worry tcda, this is just Blackmail!'s way of saying how much he loves you.
    It's that famous entp-intp chemistry.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  6. #156
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    It has always seemed to me that the great insight of the Conservatives is that institutions are fragile.

    And being fragile, institutions need to be conserved.

    This is because institutions are largely invisible. They are a collection of habits and practices and traditions we take for granted.

    But without our institutions life is solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short.

    And today the very word 'institution' is pejorative. We romanticise tribalism and are nostalgic for the feudal.

    We don't know what we've got, and we won't know what we've got 'til it's gone.

  7. #157
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    tcda, why even bother?
    Blackmail has some sort of beef with Islam, it's nothing new.
    The best way to deal with him is not talking to him, since what he does isn't bannable, just really annoying.

    /Jesus out
    This is genuine trolling, YLJ.

    People who live in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones.

    And I will say it again, I have nothing against Islam per se. However, I will maintain that I oppose stereotypes and cliches. Either you use those stereotypes to demonize Muslims or to pretend that the situation is better than it is, I don't care: Both are flawed attitudes, epistemologically speaking.

    And once again, Religions are only a piece of a larger puzzle, of a larger context. To make definitive judgments on the behalf of this factor only is somewhat stupid.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  8. #158
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Blackmail is just following the crowd in France.

    France moves toward partial burqa ban - CNN.com
    As a matter of fact, I strongly oppose this law, and for many reasons:

    1/ It concerns only a tiny, tiny minority of fanatics. I live in a popular arrondissement of Paris (19th), inhabited by dozens of thousands of Muslims. And yet, I think I've spotted a woman wearing a Burqa once in... two years?
    And in the process, you point at the entire Muslim community. Our conservative MPs seem to have nothing better to do.

    2/ Even if, indeed, I think conspicuous religious symbols should be banned within administration or public schools... Even if I despise the male chauvinist idea of behind putting women under a veil... I think anybody should be free to dress the way they want outside, in the streets. Even if they want to dress like a clown, then so be it.
    With this law, our MPs are crossing a line.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  9. #159
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    I actually have no problem with pointing the finger the entire Muslim community. Ethnoculturally it has no place in the West at all, and it must be noted that a fanatic religious minority exists everywhere a Muslim community forms. It's a structural flaw of that culture. Fanatic Christian minorities exist in most places Christians exist as well, but they don't bomb public buildings. Ergo, Muslims are a liability to the West and should be removed writ large.
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  10. #160
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    . Fanatic Christian minorities exist in most places Christians exist as well, but they don't bomb public buildings.
    It's false. They'll do it without much remorse, if you don't vehemently fight them every day.

    For instance, in 1988 (not so far ago), French Christian fanatics burned down several movie theaters because they dared to show the Last Temptation of Christ. Dozens of people were severely burned, and one died.

    Christian fundamentalists are no better than any other fanatic, it's just than in the West we had a few centuries to fight and ridicule their ideas.

    And for Jewish settler fanatics, even if they represent less than 1.5% of the entire Jewish population of Israel, you have to acknowledge how harmful their active militancy eventually affects Israel's image (for worst).

    So never underestimate fanatics.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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