User Tag List

First 12345 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 67

Thread: Should I vote?

  1. #21
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    2,054

    Default

    I vote not because I have any illusions about the odds that my vote will turn out to be pivotal but because I enjoy the experience of the democratic ritual.

    (I should probably mention that I live in a parliamentary republic, not a presidential one. I can understand if those who live in the latter feel less inclined to celebrate the system. )

  2. #22
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ExTJ
    Posts
    1,377

    Default

    I'd say yes, unless you really, really do not care. One individual vote is extremely unlikely to make a difference, but thousands of such individual votes will have effects.

    In general, the less people who vote, the more power those who do vote will have.

  3. #23
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    1w9
    Posts
    1,506

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    opportunity to vote for good candidates and laws
    This is key phrase -- especially important for those unfamiliar with the voting booth, who appear to associate voting exclusively with general elections. Depending on the size and level of activity of one's city, county or state, a number of issues -- from levies to charter/constitutional amendments to legal initiatives to school boards -- may be on a ballot. They often directly affect, passing or failing by as few as a dozen votes.

  4. #24
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by htb View Post
    ...Depending on the size and level of activity of one's city, county or state, a number of issues -- from levies to charter/constitutional amendments to legal initiatives to school boards -- may be on a ballot. They often directly affect, passing or failing by as few as a dozen votes.
    Very good point.

    It's funny how much people focus more on the national election, where they have little overall power, and ignore their local communities, where their influence could have much more resonance.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #25
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    1w9
    Posts
    1,506

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    It's funny how much people focus more on the national election, where they have little overall power, and ignore their local communities, where their influence could have much more resonance.
    Yes, and the misperception of detachment or irrelevance is at least partly responsible for civic and electoral apathy.

  6. #26
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1
    Posts
    4,223

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Very good point.

    It's funny how much people focus more on the national election, where they have little overall power, and ignore their local communities, where their influence could have much more resonance.
    good point.

  7. #27
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Posts
    4,474

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    What would happen if ten million people thought that, too. Then ten million people wouldn't have their vote count!
    Actually, it would increase the value of the votes that were cast until it became worthwhile. Course, ten million is a nice number, but it isn't hugely significant assuming it distributes close to what the general population does. (ie: 120 million odd votes were cast in 2004, which was an incredibly narrow win - 50.7%. Yet, of those 10 million, in order for the election to change through popular vote, there would have to be a 65% odd preference for the opponent to make a difference. And this was the closest vote, percentage wise, ever... I think, anyway.)

    So many people fought so hard for the right to vote.
    Sunk cost. A lot of people died fighting for monarchies too.

    What if you couldn't vote? Wouldn't that be worse?
    Voting is only as good as the decision it makes. The only real power here is the pressure the people have to rip down those in power. Voting is just a way of lowering the cost of revolution. Once the system is gamed, the difference between the parties gone, voting is harmful because it gives the appearance of legitimacy without the utility that it should have.

    The problem is not being involved. Given the choice of being involved and doing your "duty" and voting, getting involved is better.

    And don't vote unless you are significantly above the bell curve in understanding the issues. And the candidate. Which chances are you've never met and only depend on his media image.

    So, if you have time... vote, get involved and do all that. If you don't... well... what can I say. I've dealt with too many ignorant small groups of people voting for something they don't even begin to understand. The only reason why voting for representatives is good is because it keeps the masses out of decision making power.

  8. #28
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    1w9
    Posts
    1,506

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Which chances are you've never met and only depend on his media image.
    Only if the question of voting, again, is restricted to a national one -- which it can't be. I'm on a first-name basis with my state senator; the state representative whose term ended last year and the man who lost an election for her seat; about half of my city's council; the sitting mayor and the mayor before him. The participation required wasn't difficult.

    The only reason why voting for representatives is good is because it keeps the masses out of decision making power.
    Which of course it isn't, not beyond simple abstractions. Elected representation is the elevation to prominence by consent of a local majority, advocation of local interests for requests of a greater power or in parliamentary assent; and retention by, once more, the vote of a constituency. To call that exclusion is to try to repudiate leadership itself.

  9. #29
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Posts
    4,474

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by htb View Post
    Only if the question of voting, again, is restricted to a national one -- which it can't be. I'm on a first-name basis with my state senator; the state representative whose term ended last year and the man who lost an election for her seat; about half of my city's council; the sitting mayor and the mayor before him. The participation required wasn't difficult.
    Which is why I have repeatedly said - get involved.

    Voting is not governance. Your duty is to be involved in the world around you, not to simply vote for someone and wash your hands of it. If you don't know politics, go pick up garbage on your block, fix a hole in the road or something. You'll do more good.

    On the other hand, if you are into politics, then make sure you are rational enough to vote, do the research on the issues, then go and plead your case to those that make decisions. Voting doesn't even begin to compare to that.

    Which of course it isn't, not beyond simple abstractions. Elected representation is the elevation to prominence by consent of a local majority, advocation of local interests for requests of a greater power or in parliamentary assent; and retention by, once more, the vote of a constituency. To call that exclusion is to try to repudiate leadership itself.
    No, it is - in a literal "vote for someone else to make your decisions on your behalf." The point itself being that you are distancing the masses from making individual choices. The abstraction is that the people rule - rule through many levels of government, allowing the majority to vote not for decisions, but for a person to make decisions.

  10. #30
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    1w9
    Posts
    1,506

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    The point itself being that you are distancing the masses from making individual choices. The abstraction is that the people rule - rule through many levels of government, allowing the majority to vote not for decisions, but for a person to make decisions.
    First, "masses" is a pejorative that connotes little regard for or familiarity with people; its use should be avoided. Second, how are citizens prevented from making choices if they ordain their colleagues to carry out certain public responsibilities? In a statist or otherwise corrupt environment, yes, individuals will be both distanced and circumscribed. But in a liberal environment, there are many more decisions being made outside of the government -- activities by neighborhoods, associations, businesses, charities and so on. Third, you have the value of voting inverted. Civil service in an unaccountable government is worthless. However, amenability to majority rule is the greatest concession any official can make; without electoral approval, he has no legal power.

Similar Threads

  1. The "Who-You-Should-Vote-For"-Test
    By Stephano in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 07-31-2016, 07:38 PM
  2. Bernie Sanders: Why Trump Supporters Should Vote for Me
    By Thalassa in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-21-2016, 06:30 PM
  3. Why you should vote YES on PROP 19
    By Edgar in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: 11-14-2010, 09:12 AM
  4. Should convicted felons be allowed to vote?
    By Domino in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 56
    Last Post: 09-16-2008, 02:48 PM
  5. What should I do this weekend?
    By Wolf in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 04-28-2007, 02:40 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO